# Is northism evil? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734 "2010-12-19T18:27:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/21 "2010-12-19T23:24:05Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Oddly, maps used to be oriented with east up. That’s why it’s called that - the Orient is at the top. Unless they occidentally hung it upside-down. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/22 "2010-12-19T23:24:42Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > A considerable majority of the worlds population (and most of its land mass) is found north of the equator. It is not just Europe and North America, it is **all of Asia** , most of Africa, and a considerable chunk of South America. Umm, no. Just, no. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/23 "2010-12-19T23:40:48Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > I have to thank the OP, for providing evidence to refute those various posters who claim that the concept of “political correctness” is a figment of the right-wing imagination. Nobody appointed Pierre Le Fou to speak on behalf of the left. You’ll note that Der Trihs, who is as liberal as anyone on this board, is not supporting this idea. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/24 "2010-12-19T23:42:44Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Umm, no. > > Just, no. Doesn’t that depend on whether you consider Indonesia part of Asia or Oceania? Because Indonesia is the only part of (maybe) Asia that has lands south of the equator. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/25 "2010-12-20T00:01:24Z")
Yes, it is evil. Just kidding, of course it isn’t. Start pointing those neurons in a direction that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/26 "2010-12-20T00:24:35Z")
I’m shocked that no one has mentioned time zones. Basing our time zones on Greenwich, London is clearly the cause of all evil. _cue scary music_ Don’t even get me started on daylight savings time. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/27 "2010-12-20T00:45:37Z")
> [@Implicit](#): > > I’m shocked that no one has mentioned time zones. Basing our time zones on Greenwich, London is clearly the cause of all evil. _cue scary music_ Don’t even get me started on daylight savings time. Well, YEAH! I mean, how come we’re only saving daylight? Huh? Huh? What about all the dark skinned people who might like night better? What about them? WON’T SOMEONE THINK ABOUT THE NIGHT-LOVING DARK-SKINNED CHILDREN AND STOP THE MADNESS!!! Hey, this is fun! Let’s talk about why up is up next! ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/28 "2010-12-20T00:55:35Z")
The people who made the effort to chart the entire fucking planet and create the map can orient it any way they damn well please. Go chart the planet yourself (without using someone else’s map), and I’ll have some respect for how you choose to orient your map. Do it with 17th century technology, and no benefit at all from modern technology (including no modern boat, canned food, navigation equipment, etc.) and I might consider buying one. Until then - it’s easy to be an armchair general and pontificate about things you had no input in whatsoever, and couldn’t possibly achieve yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f475e1/32.png) [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pierrot_Le_Fou)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/29 "2010-12-20T01:59:49Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > The people who made the effort to chart the entire fucking planet and create the map can orient it any way they damn well please. Just like people can colonize and enslave whomever they want. You should look beyond what people can do and look at what they should do. The United States could nuke Mexico, but that is not something the US should do. The north orientation is evil. The orientation was used against people that were colonized and enslaved. You can be on the side of people that raped entire cultures. I will be on the side of angels. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/30 "2010-12-20T02:16:41Z")
The OP is clearly thinking much too small. The most of the world’s landmass is in the Northern Hemisphere because of plate tectonics. But just who came up with this plate tectonics theory? Who made the continents start moving in the first place? In other words, _cui bono_ from a north-oriented world? The conclusion is inescapable: Santa Claus. He did it to drive up property values and keep away anyone who might start asking questions about his tax-free elf slave labor. IT ALL FITS TOGETHER! ---
**Author:** ![tingbudong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tingbudong/32/520_2.png) [@tingbudong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tingbudong)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/31 "2010-12-20T03:19:33Z")
I’ve actually witnessed this cartographic debate live. 2nd year GIS class when I was an undergrad in 2000. At the time university campuses in Canada were still pushing a lot of post-colonial stuff on the students (not saying it was bad, just saying there was lots…not sure what the undergrad flavour in today’s classrooms) and GIS had to jump on the bandwagon to stay relevant as a ‘real’ university activity. I’ll give the OP some benefit in the assertion that north-centric projections perpetuate colonialism, racism etc. Maps are more powerful tools than most people realize in forging national narratives, cultural confidence, stereotypes etc. That said, while I recognize the argument, I don’t think it is strong enough to perpetuate a massive change in standard map orientation or become so blindingly impassioned like the OP. Anyone who is an educator may want to point out that while maps can oriented in any direction for feel-good fuzzy political feelings, it is international standard practice to navigate and conduct land/ocean surveys with north oriented at the top of the page. IMHO, regarding maps, it’s not the orientation that the OP should be getting all bent-out-of-shape over, but the tricky art of map [projection.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projections#Which_map_is_best.3F) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/32 "2010-12-20T03:31:10Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > I have to thank the OP, for providing evidence to refute those various posters who claim that the concept of “political correctness” is a figment of the right-wing imagination. Help stamp out rightwingism! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/33 "2010-12-20T03:34:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I have to assume this is a parody. Gosh, no. I’ve heard this complaint for decades. People are deadly serious about it. [QUOTE=Blake] Umm, no. Just no. [/QUOTE] I’m looking at a map of the world right now and every square inch of _mainland_ Asia is north of the Equator. If you were to count Indonesia as being Asia then you coulod say parts of Asia are in the Southern Hemisphere but you have to admit that it’s reasonable to state “Asia’s entirely in the Northern Hemisphere” as long as we understand you mean the mainland. Having said that, I think the “mainland” qualifier is important, because geographically most of Indonesia is in fact part of Asia. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/34 "2010-12-20T03:52:56Z")
[According to Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Hemisphere), 90% of the earth’s population is in the Northern hemisphere, as well as most of the land. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/35 "2010-12-20T04:08:40Z")
> [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](#): > > It perpetuates the myth that the northern hemisphere is more important. It focuses attention on the northern hemisphere, implying that the north is more important. It puts whites and Asians over Latinos and blacks, reinforcing stereotypes about who is more important and who is in charge. Aha! So that’s why the Inuits and Lapps have such influence in the world. And they’re constantly looking down on us! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/36 "2010-12-20T04:17:43Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > So the Inuit are the most important people in the world? No, the Claus family, their elf workforce, and Superman are. ---
**Author:** ![Fatwater\_Fewl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@Fatwater\_Fewl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fatwater_Fewl)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/37 "2010-12-20T05:01:18Z")
**Pierre** , don’t let these folks and their northern platitudes disorient you. You’ve charted your course, hold firm and sail right along it, dude. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/38 "2010-12-20T05:08:22Z")
Why does B always have to be the second letter in the alphabet?! That’s not fair. Why do we let A hog all the glory? It’s selfish! I demand a rotating alphabet order so all 26 letters can democratically have a turn at being first. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/39 "2010-12-20T05:12:55Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > No, the Claus family, their elf workforce, and Superman are. Don’t forget Mr Popper’s penguins. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734/40 "2010-12-20T05:14:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Aha! So that’s why the Inuits and Lapps have such influence in the world. > > And they’re constantly looking down on us! Oops, I missed **Canadjun’s** post. My apologies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-northism-evil/564734.md?page=3)