# Is now the time for moderate Republicans to try to retake control of the party? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 15, 2022, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704 "2022-08-15T17:36:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/221 "2023-10-06T15:45:05Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Propaganda sponsored by totalitarian states. > Propaganda sponsored by entities that benefit from extreme economic inequality. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > What is interesting to me is the number of economically insecure populists who are dead-set against redistributive economics as a solution to their self-acknowledged lack of money. A social network algorithm that tapped into that shared problem could just as easily offer Progressive or even Communist ideas as the solution. Yet they don’t. Why? My hypothesis is the short sightedness an stupidity of the very wealthy. Ultimately, not even the people like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Saudi Royal family, etc. benefits from extreme inequality. But they are seemingly too greedy, short sighted, and ultimately stupid to realize that. They have forgotten the lessons of the French Revolution. How does this relate back to this thread? The moderate Republican office holders need to wake up to this and switch sides to become Joe Manchin style Democrats\*. The reason they’ve lost their position is because their voter base already realized that their two options were to either become Democrats or to go full MAGA. - And on the flip side, the Democratic Party needs to realize what is at stake, and welcome these folks in rather than push them away. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/222 "2023-10-06T15:53:53Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > They have forgotten the lessons of the French Revolution. They have not forgotten. They are planning for it. > **[The super-rich ‘preppers’ planning to save themselves from the apocalypse](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff)** > > Tech billionaires are buying up luxurious bunkers to survive a societal collapse they helped create, but like everything they do, it has unintended consequences ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/223 "2023-10-06T15:56:55Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > They have not forgotten. They are planning for it. They’ve still forgotten. Even if they “win”, the result is still going to be something significantly worse than what we have right now, much less than our peak in the early 2010s (or late 1990s, or 1950s, or whenever else you think our peak as a civilization was). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/224 "2023-10-06T22:51:15Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > What is interesting to me is the number of economically insecure populists who are dead-set against redistributive economics as a solution to their self-acknowledged lack of money. A social network algorithm that tapped into that shared problem could just as easily offer Progressive or even Communist ideas as the solution. Yet they don’t. Why? Addiction taps into instinctual desires - macronutrient craving, dopamine hits, procreation, etc. These things are addictive because they’re fundamental to the more primitive aspects of our evolution. And, likewise, territorialism, conspiracizing (e.g. threat seeking), etc. are fundamental to our interests, back in an era where the strongest and most crafty rose to the top, and where a bad harvest meant that survival meant sacking the neighboring settlement and stealing their food. Until recently, in modern times, we mostly only got our fill of conspiracies and group warfare through things like soap operas and sports on TV. But, with billions of people creating content every day, server farms looking for above-normal human interest in particular posts, and unethical content creators analyzing content success rates, it creates a good environment for finding unintentionally created things that appeal to our base instincts and teaching us what to produce to tap into that intentionally, for a profit. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/225 "2023-10-06T23:29:51Z")
My “Yet they don’t. Why?” was intended to be rhetorical. But yes, @FlikTheBlue and @Sage_Rat, you’ve both nailed what I believe to be the problem. Here’s a snip of a post in a different thread, but it seems relevant here too. > [@Was H.L. Mencken a fascist who would have supported Trump?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-h-l-mencken-a-fascist-who-would-have-supported-trump/991184/6): > > The other major difference is that the rightist side has the easy downhill track. Like a car with bad alignment, raw human nature in the bulk pulls to the right and can be steered to the left only by dint of continuous education, nurturing, and wide exposure to the rest of humanity not similar to yourself. It only takes one generation of neglect to allow the crude know-nothing right-leaning state of nature to be renewed. As applied to this thread and my points earlier, selling RW crazy is “going with the grain” of raw human nature to a degree that selling e.g. capital-P Progressivism simply isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/226 "2023-10-17T14:51:10Z")
Just a place-holder until we find out — possibly in a couple hours — if Jordan is the next Speaker. Very relevant to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/227 "2023-10-17T14:53:14Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Very relevant to this thread. As in, we might find that it’s time for the radicals to take control of the party rather than the moderates? It is funny to think some were thinking moderates might take control. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2023, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/228 "2023-10-18T07:34:39Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > control. True. Hope springs eternal. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/229 "2023-10-25T22:05:13Z")
Looks like the time has not yet come. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/230 "2023-11-04T09:18:49Z")
What a Donald Trump second term would look like. I have quoted this, from the BBC, in full because I understand that it is not accessible to US readers. > Some of his pronouncements border on the fantastical. His government will invest in flying cars and build “freedom cities” on empty federal land, where Americans can live and work without burdensome regulations. > > Others are controversial, such as his plan to round up the homeless and move them to tent camps outside US cities until their “problems can be identified”. Some lean directly into the culture wars - he wants state school teachers to be required to “embrace patriotic values”. > > He also doubles-down on protectionist policies, calling for a “universal baseline tariff” on all imports, which can be raised on countries that engage in “unfair” trade practices. > > On immigration, he wants to reinstate the policy of making undocumented migrants stay in Mexico while they apply for asylum. He also calls for an end to automatic citizenship for the children of undocumented migrants born on US soil. > > He pledges to cut “hundreds of billions” of dollars in US international aid and end the war in Ukraine in the process. According to media reports, he is contemplating a US withdrawal from Nato or, at the very least, scaling back American involvement with the trans-Atlantic defence pact. > > “The greatest threat to Western civilisation today is not Russia,” he says in a March video. “It’s probably, more than anything else, ourselves and some of the horrible, USA-hating people that represent us.” > > According to Mr Lotter, the top issue on Mr Trump’s 2024 agenda will be energy - increasing supply to bring down household bills. > > In his view, higher energy prices have been a driving force behind the inflation that bedevilled the early years of the Biden presidency. > > “Opening up the spigots and sending the signal to the markets and to the energy companies that we are open for business again will actually start to lower energy prices long term.” > > These policies represent the culmination of Mr Trump’s efforts to remake the Republican Party in his own image. > > The conservatism of George W Bush, John McCain and Mitt Romney - the party’s presidential nominees in the four elections prior to Mr Trump’s 2016 victory - has been swept away. > > “The party has evolved, there’s no other way to say it,” says Bryan Lanza, a Republican strategist with ties to the Trump campaign. “We’re the party of tariffs now. Who would have predicted that?” > > The new Republican Party, Mr Lanza says, blends conservatism with a populism that appeals to working-class voters, including labour workers who have traditional ties to the Democratic Party. Immigration, trade and a restrained foreign policy backed by American “strength” are core parts of the agenda now. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/231 "2023-11-06T22:48:38Z")
21sep2023 post: > [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > The question is just how big a group are the “never Trumpers.” They clearly are a large enough group to have some influence, otherwise 2022 would have looked like 1994 and 2010. But I don’t know if they’re big enough to outweigh the “only Trumpers” who previously were non-voters… The New Republic article was interesting, but you put your finger on its big flaw. Firstly, calling somebody who voted against Trump in 2020 a “Never Trumper” is a mighty stretch. Among moderate or liberal Republicans only 8% opposed Trump in 2016 after all (it rose to 16% in 2020). But how does that translate to the whole electorate? Pew’s 2020 survey listed 27% of the electorate as either Republican or as an independent that leaned Republican. [1] A 2021 Gallup poll indicated that 74% of Republicans considered themselves conservative, 22% moderate, and 4% liberal. [2] SO: .16 \* .27 \* .26 = 1.1%. Ookay, that’s not tiny, but I think the author was mistaken when he characterized it as decisive. Cut it in half to reflect the 2016 results and you get 0.56%. And I’m not convinced that all of those were Never Trump either. My WAG is perhaps one quarter of one percent of the electorate are Never Trumper patriots - minuscule. [1] [https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2020/11/PP\_2020.11.19\_Post-Election-Views\_TOPLINE.pdf](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2020/11/PP_2020.11.19_Post-Election-Views_TOPLINE.pdf) [2] [U.S. Political Ideology Steady; Conservatives, Moderates Tie](https://news.gallup.com/poll/388988/political-ideology-steady-conservatives-moderates-tie.aspx) I’d say the Dobbs abortion decision is likely to flip more votes than ongoing threats to our 240 year old experiment with democracy. Still, every hundredth of a percentage point counts. A little. ETA: Heh. Hijack! Now is the time for _liberal_ Republicans to try to retake control. Sure they face longer odds, but only slightly. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/232 "2023-11-08T01:28:18Z")
We have a bit of a test of the thread question in the Philadelphia mayor’s race tonight. The GOP candidate, David Oh, appears more progressive than the Democratic candidate expected to breeze to victory, Cherelle Parker. An example is that she is for stop and frisk, and he is against it. Trump is an issue here, because Oh, inexplicably to me given his other positions, has said he voted DJT. My Philadelphia-resident son just told me that he voted for Parker because there is no way he is voting for someone who voted for Trump. I live in the suburbs but would have voted for Parker because she is a centrist, and so am I. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/233 "2023-11-08T01:53:22Z")
I don’t even know anything about the two and I probably would also. If Trump runs again, he will be making calls again. Thankfully if he loses he can’t literally “call in favors” because no one will be beholden to a loser, but it’s a lot more likely that his supporters will try to shift votes his way than never-trumpers. Made even more likely because it seems likely that there will be no consequences for attempting a coup as long as you don’t personally engage in violence. People at the state level who may have been frightened last cycle might be emboldened this time around. On the other hand, a violent coup attempt is not more likely than before since we did crack down on the foot soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/234 "2023-11-08T02:26:10Z")
I’m torn. I do believe the country is a better place if moderate Republicans were to rise. But as a case in point, Glenn Youngkin, who kind-of sort-of fits the descrip by modern political standards, would have used his hegemony in Virginia (if he had it, doesn’t look like he will) to pass an abortion restrictions bill there. That’s too high a price for me to root for. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/235 "2023-11-08T03:06:48Z")
Never Trump Republican donors try to retake control with little success. > **[Conservative lawyers to launch Society for Rule of Law to counter Maga movement](https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/maga-counter-society-rule-of-law-b2442349.html)** > > The group’s co-founders include retired Fourth Circuit judge J Michael Luttig, attorney George Conway, and former GOP Representative Barbara Comstock Insignificant organization rebrands and secures 501c3 and c4 status. Gets a boost from the more hefty but still small Defending Democracy Together Institute. > According to people involved in plans for the revamped group, it would not be an explicitly anti-Trump group. Instead, it would be built around bringing together people in the legal profession who want to centre constitutional principles, including limited government, separation of powers, checks and balances, and the independence of the justice system from political influence. > One source close to the effort told The Independent that the society’s roll-out will involve outreach to law students across the US with the aim of building chapters and instating a culture of respect for the constitution in the next generation of the legal profession. Ok, so it’s a Federalist Society fringe competitor. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/236 "2023-11-08T11:24:34Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > We have a bit of a test of the thread question in the Philadelphia mayor’s race tonight. Well, Parker won with about 70% of the vote. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/237 "2023-11-08T13:22:47Z")
Yeah, that was pretty much a given but I can see part of **PhillyGuy** ’s point: a recovery of the Sensible Republican wing, as once characterized by the Northeastern Republicans, would be helped by having the Sensible R’s show decent performance in Blue territory. Not necessarily winning but making a respectable showing. Otherwise, the ascendant hardliners will continue to say _“See? No point in being anything but hardcore. Hell with y’all weak “sportsmanlike” country-club Reps.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/238 "2023-11-13T22:03:07Z")
ISTM the moderate republicans are bailing: Full Title: **House Republicans are jumping off the sinking ship** - [https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4304344-house-republicans-are-jumping-off-the-sinking-ship/](https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4304344-house-republicans-are-jumping-off-the-sinking-ship/) From that article: > Have you noticed the rush of House Republicans calling it quits in the last few weeks? > > Rep. [Ken Buck](https://thehill.com/people/ken-buck/)(R-Colo.) announced his exit Nov. 1. He [explained](https://rollcall.com/2023/11/01/buck-says-gop-is-lying-to-america-and-he-wont-run-again/) that to be a member of the Republican House majority means putting up with the “many Republican leaders [who] are lying to America, claiming that the 2020 election was stolen.” > > Buck is predicting that even more House Republicans will leave “in the near future.” ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/239 "2023-11-13T22:23:04Z")
All he has to do is caucus with the Democrats and things will be much better. If he’s not running again anyway, he has nothing to lose. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704/240 "2023-11-13T22:41:16Z")
Except for the continuous death threats to him & his family. Resigning probably reduces much of that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-now-the-time-for-moderate-republicans-to-try-to-retake-control-of-the-party/969704.md?page=13)