# Is NY style pizza supposed to be like this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 9, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929 "2016-06-09T17:04:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/61 "2016-06-11T01:39:06Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’ve been to the original (before they went national), and Papa Del’s is still better. That does not surprise me. Uno’s is a good yardstick, and they absolutely have a solid deep dish (anyone who says it’s just for tourists doesn’t know what they’re talking about.) But there are better deep dishes around. Of the big names, I prefer Malnati’s. Plus does Papa Del’s do a standard Chicago deep dish? I remember a pan thick crust type of pizza and a stuffed (which I guess is an offshoot of deep dish, but not what Uno’s and Malnati’s do.) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/62 "2016-06-11T02:54:35Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > I remember when my now-wife and I visited NYC, we felt that as long as we were there, we ought to try some of this famous NYC pizza. So we found a local pizzeria, got a slice each, and settled down to eat it. > > Neither of us could figure out what the big deal was. I mean, it was lunch, but I didn’t have any desire to try it again. > > Now, and NYC deli - holy moly, that’s where it’s at. You should understand that, just like in every other city, there’s a wide variety of pizza in NYC. Not every pizza is authentic NYC pizza . . . even if it’s called “famous” or “original.” Lots of it is crap. Same with cheescake. Lots of places will sell you “New York Cheescake,” but there’s only one Junior’s. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/63 "2016-06-11T03:46:49Z")
Preach it. > **[Junior's](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior%27s)** > > Coordinates: .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}40°41′24.46″N 73°58′55.20″W / 40.6901278°N 73.9820000°W / 40.6901278; -73.9820000 > Junior's is a restaurant chain with the original location at 386 Flatbush Avenue Extension at the corner of DeKalb Avenue in Downtown Brooklyn, ... ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/64 "2016-06-11T06:14:10Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > No, the original is still there, with Due nearby. [Here’s the website](http://pizzeria.unotogo.com/zgrid/themes/7/portal/index.jsp). What you linked to is Uno Pizzeria and Grill (formerly, Uno Chicago Grill), which is some franchised, bastardized version of Pizzeria Uno. There is only one actual Pizzeria Uno. Nothing grinds my gears like the franchised “Uno Chicago Pizza” (or whatever they call it this week) that is franchised around the country. It is NOTHING like the authentic Uno’s (and Due’s) pizza in Chicago. If you must eat at one, please don’t consider yourself to have sampled authentic Uno’s pizza. You haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/65 "2016-06-11T15:08:18Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > You should understand that, just like in every other city, there’s a wide variety of pizza in NYC. Not every pizza is authentic NYC pizza . . . even if it’s called “famous” or “original.” Lots of it is crap. > > Same with cheescake. Lots of places will sell you “New York Cheescake,” but there’s only one Junior’s. Right. The sources of the good reputation are necessarily a finite number of venues over a time period, and even before you get to outright “dumbed-down knock-off for the tourists”, in a market the size of NYC (or Chicago for that matter) the mere statistical variance in the product will be way wide. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/66 "2016-06-11T16:21:35Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > You pick a slice up, and it just goes limp right there in your hand (shut up). > [@DrFidelius](#): > > You fold the slice to eat it. [Mad Magazine’s guide to eating pizza.](http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/imce/MAD-Magazine-Dave-Berg-Pizza-2_528b83af59e7a3.02909380.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/67 "2016-06-11T22:51:13Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > You should understand that, just like in every other city, there’s a wide variety of pizza in NYC. Not every pizza is authentic NYC pizza . . . even if it’s called “famous” or “original.” Lots of it is crap. > > Same with cheescake. Lots of places will sell you “New York Cheescake,” but there’s only one Junior’s. Even at my favorite places I can get a slice to die for and then the next time it’s rather mediocre. Pizza is a fickle muse. And I agree NJ has some great pizza. There’s a bazillion excellent little mom-n-pop places tucked away in all those those shopping centers. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/68 "2016-06-12T01:26:31Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That does not surprise me. Uno’s is a good yardstick, and they absolutely have a solid deep dish (anyone who says it’s just for tourists doesn’t know what they’re talking about.) But there are better deep dishes around. Of the big names, I prefer Malnati’s. > > Plus does Papa Del’s do a standard Chicago deep dish? I remember a pan thick crust type of pizza and a stuffed (which I guess is an offshoot of deep dish, but not what Uno’s and Malnati’s do.) I was there before stuffed pizza was invented. The official name was Papa Del’s Pizza in a Pan. I didn’t think of Uno’s as much different when I went. When I visited once our friends got pizza from I think Giordano’s (it’s been a long time) which was better than Uno’s, even delivered. But since I’ve never lived in Chicago I’m not an expert on what the best Chicago pizza is. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/69 "2016-06-12T01:29:11Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Nothing grinds my gears like the franchised “Uno Chicago Pizza” (or whatever they call it this week) that is franchised around the country. It is NOTHING like the authentic Uno’s (and Due’s) pizza in Chicago. If you must eat at one, please don’t consider yourself to have sampled authentic Uno’s pizza. You haven’t. I went to the Uno’s in Ft. Worth about a year ago because it was open. Sad. Far worse than the ones around me, now long closed. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/70 "2016-06-12T04:21:41Z")
If you pick up a box of pizza and the oil doesn’t leak through it and onto your car seat during the short drive home, it’s not N.Y. pizza. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/71 "2016-06-12T06:02:27Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I was there before stuffed pizza was invented. The official name was Papa Del’s Pizza in a Pan. I didn’t think of Uno’s as much different when I went. > When I visited once our friends got pizza from I think Giordano’s (it’s been a long time) which was better than Uno’s, even delivered. But since I’ve never lived in Chicago I’m not an expert on what the best Chicago pizza is. Actually, I’m misremembering. Papa Del’s does call it “pan pizza” on their menu, but it is pretty much a standard Chicago-style deep dish. ---
**Author:** ![DonLogan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@DonLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonLogan)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/72 "2016-06-12T12:03:29Z")
There are some well-known places in the NY/NJ environs that do a crispier crust, but a standard version has a soft crust that flops, this is why you fold. The floppiness factor is also a function of the diameter of the pie the slice came from. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/73 "2016-06-12T12:27:43Z")
So, just what is it that makes a pizza “New York style”? All I’m seeing so far in this thread is “It has a thin crust, unless it’s the other kind of New York style, in which case it has a thick crust”. Between them, that pretty much encompasses all pizza, doesn’t it? Oh, and it’s also greasy, but again, that’s rather universal. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/74 "2016-06-12T14:10:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, just what is it that makes a pizza “New York style”? All I’m seeing so far in this thread is “It has a thin crust, unless it’s the other kind of New York style, in which case it has a thick crust”. Between them, that pretty much encompasses all pizza, doesn’t it? > > Oh, and it’s also greasy, but again, that’s rather universal. This is a pretty good description: > [@](#): > > The most common and now quintessential form of NY pizza has thus become the type that is cooked in gas ovens rather than the Neapolitan-American type cooked with coal. NY style pizza is sold either as whole pies or by the “slice” > […] > The NY style pizzas tend to have far more cheese than Neapolitan-American coal oven pies. The cheese typically covers the entire pie, with sauce only poking out along the circumference. A low moisture mozzarella is used rather than fresh mozzarella, which is not well suited to the lower temperature and longer cooking times of the gas ovens. Gas fired pizza lacks the sooty exterior that is a hallmark of coal fired ovens, but it still has plenty of crunch and snap to go along with the pliancy and springiness of the dough. [Eater](http://ny.eater.com/2015/8/7/9050099/new-york-pizza-styles-best-slice) [NY Style](http://www.roccosdelilv.com/images/menupizza.jpg) [Neopolitan](https://www.google.com/search?q=neapolitan+pizza&safe=strict&biw=1280&bih=603&tbm=isch&imgil=zQCVQ6yEDmD7pM%253A%253Bzp2XcdlAJkmn5M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.falsonueve.com%25252Fen%25252Fauthentic-neapolitan-pizza%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=zQCVQ6yEDmD7pM%253A%252Czp2XcdlAJkmn5M%252C_&usg=__MjuFOsbooALA4cZD7ymqjMVu-bc%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjT6qTU06LNAhWEHh4KHYNnChwQyjcIwgE&ei=kGtdV9PiDIS9eIPPqeAB#imgrc=6QjbiYIDCLC5MM%3A) [Chicago-Style/Deep Dish](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Pizzeria_Uno_Chicago-style_deep-dish_pizza.jpg) [Sicilian](https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=sicilian+pizza&view=detailv2&&id=0E34EAA17491BE3EAEC7A72CEC8311892E276DFE&selectedIndex=16&ccid=gtQJC%2fDj&simid=607992307277825883&thid=OIP.M82d4090bf0e3e32539e70ddf718b04a2o0&ajaxhist=0) ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/75 "2016-06-12T15:21:24Z")
The above post is interesting, but most NYC neighborhood pizza joints offer a fresh mozzarella option which tastes fine to me (is usually my choice). Plus I assumed that most pizzerias across the country use gas-fired ovens… not true? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/76 "2016-06-12T15:43:46Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > Which is a practical application of Gauss’s [Theorema Egregium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theorema_Egregium): > > > [@](#): > > > > An application of the Theorema Egregium is seen in a common pizza-eating strategy: A slice of pizza can be seen as a surface with constant Gaussian curvature 0. Gently bending a slice must then roughly maintain this curvature (assuming the bend is roughly a local isometry). If one bends a slice horizontally along a radius, non-zero principal curvatures are created along the bend, dictating that the other principal curvature at these points must be zero. This creates rigidity in the direction perpendicular to the fold, an attribute desirable when eating pizza, as it holds its shape long enough to be consumed without a mess. Now you made me lose my appetite. ---
**Author:** ![DMGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@DMGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/77 "2016-06-12T15:58:51Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > THANK YOU! > > You don’t know if Boobies sandwich shop is still around do you? It was in DesPlaines if I recall. Best Italian beef subs. (I’m not going to google it on a work computer 🙂 ) My wife and I ate there when we were in Chicago for Memorial Day weekend…very solid Italian Beef sandwich, but not the best around. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/78 "2016-06-12T17:15:47Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > The above post is interesting, but most NYC neighborhood pizza joints offer a fresh mozzarella option which tastes fine to me (is usually my choice). Plus I assumed that most pizzerias across the country use gas-fired ovens… not true? I think that’s a safe assumption. I wouldn’t say putting fresh mozzarella and basil on a regular pizza joint crust makes it neopolitan though (although they may call it that and it makes it neopolitan-ish). Neopolitan pizza is smaller, baked more quickly in a much hotter oven so the whole thing’s different. I may be mistaken but the dough might be a bit different too. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/79 "2016-06-12T22:40:11Z")
Of the posted images there, the New York style just looks like ordinary standard pizza, as does the Sicilian, and I’ve seen very few places anywhere in the country that serve anything that resembles that Neapolitan pizza. If I go to Little Caesar’s, Domino’s, or Pizza Hut, I’ll get something that more closely resembles the picture labeled “New York” than any of the others. Surely, there’s a difference between Pizza Hut and a true New York pizza? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929/80 "2016-06-12T22:55:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of the posted images there, the New York style just looks like ordinary standard pizza, as does the Sicilian, and I’ve seen very few places anywhere in the country that serve anything that resembles that Neapolitan pizza. If I go to Little Caesar’s, Domino’s, or Pizza Hut, I’ll get something that more closely resembles the picture labeled “New York” than any of the others. Surely, there’s a difference between Pizza Hut and a true New York pizza? In my experience, Pizza Hut pizza has thinner, crisper crust than most neighborhood pizzerias in New York. Sicilian pizza, as sold in New York, is maybe twice as thick as regular pizza, and cut square. When I was a kid in the 1960s I remember my neighborhood pizzerias serving pizza that looked more like the Neopolitan style, with bits of mozzarella scattered throughout the tomato sauce rather than being a solid layer. Most of the Italians in my neighborhood were from Naples. I think pizza may have become more standardized over time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ny-style-pizza-supposed-to-be-like-this/756929.md?page=5)