# IS Obama a natural born US citizen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 15, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-a-natural-born-us-citizen/468083 "2008-10-15T20:16:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-a-natural-born-us-citizen/468083/61 "2008-10-16T05:09:13Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > The Panama Canal Zone was leased by the United States but still owned by Panama. I wouldn’t say it was exactly leased. The treaty gave the US the right to act “as if” it were sovereign in the Canal Zone, but as you say still remained part of Panama. As has been said, simply being born in the Canal Zone did not confer citizenship. McCain’s status depends on the citizenship of his parents, not his place of birth. Interestingly, McCain qualifies as a native-born Panamanian citizen, and would be eligible to run for President of Panama in next year’s elections just in case he loses this one. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-a-natural-born-us-citizen/468083/62 "2008-10-16T07:33:42Z")
> [@pips](#): > > Form n-600 from the I.N.S. > > If you are the biological child of a U.S. citizen, you were born outside the United States and you are claiming citizenship by having been born to U.S. citizen paren(s), you automatically become a U.S. citizen at birth if: > > You were born to two U.S. citizen parents and at least one of your parents had a residence in the United States or one if its outlying possessions. This residence had to have taken place prior to your birth; or > > **You were born to parents, one of whom is an alien and the other a U.S. citizen who, prior to your birth, had been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after the age of 14 years.** This applies to children born today (and it applied when my children were born, in 1994 and 2000). However, the rules were different in 1961, with a longer residency requirement if only one parent was a U.S. citizen. The rules for babies born in Hawaii, of course, were exactly the same as they are today. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-a-natural-born-us-citizen/468083/63 "2008-10-16T16:13:10Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Quick question: Puertoriqueños are considered “natural born U.S. citizens” are they not? As of 1941 the relevant statutes explicitly make birth in Puerto Rico territory confer US citizenship-by-birthplace (_“jus solis”_). In 1917 what was applied was a sort of a citizenship-by-decree for everyone who was already around and did not opt-out, which in turn was understood to pass on to descendants. However, as the various quoted statutes and regs suggest, part of the problem is that the legislators and regulators(and the drafters of the XIV Amendment), when establishing nationality rules, insist on using the terms “by birth” or “at birth”, or “born in” – and not the phrase “\*natural \*born” from Art.II, Secc. 1 of the Constitution (which many people tend to confuse with “native” born, just to add to the mess). ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-a-natural-born-us-citizen/468083/64 "2008-10-16T20:19:06Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Good clarifying post. Minor nitpick: Naval Station Rota is **Panamanian** soil. People from Simon Bolivar to Manuel Noriega would be surprised to find that it still belonged to Spain. > **[Naval Station Rota](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Station_Rota,_Spain)** > > Naval Station Rota, also known as NAVSTA Rota (IATA: ROZ, ICAO: LERT) (Spanish: Base Naval de Rota), is a Spanish naval base, that is jointly used by the Spanish Navy and the United States Navy. Located in Rota in the Province of Cádiz, NAVSTA Rota is the largest American military community in Spain, housing U.S. Navy and U.S. Marine Corps personnel. There are also small U.S. Army and U.S. Air Force contingents on the base. > The construction of the Rota Naval Base was carried out in the 19th cent... ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-a-natural-born-us-citizen/468083/65 "2008-10-16T20:31:27Z")
Okay, sorry, Naval Station Rota, in Spain, is indisputably Spanish soil with a U.S. military presence on it. Presumably this is relevant to the discussion of the birthplaces of the two major aspirants for the Presidency in some way that someone will explain. Without looking it up, I misconstrued **JRDelirious** ’s reference to it as meaning John McCain’s birthplace, which on due Googlification I find to be named Coco Solo Naval Hospital, a fact I had forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-a-natural-born-us-citizen/468083/66 "2008-10-16T20:31:32Z")
thank you for all the clarifications. i can see why there is a big can of worms in this. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-a-natural-born-us-citizen/468083/67 "2008-10-16T22:58:30Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > i can see why there is a big can of worms in this. What do you mean? There is no “can of worms” at all associated with Obama’s citizenship. There might be one with McCain’s if anyone chose to pursue it, but nobody is. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-a-natural-born-us-citizen/468083/68 "2008-10-17T02:29:42Z")
Right, the “can of worms” is about picking on the meaning of “natural born citizen” when the actual laws do not explicitly define the phrase. This WOULD be hypothetically relevant to Sen. Obama were it not that he was born to an undisputably American mother in a state of the USA, and to Sen. McCain were it not that laws and precedents in effect at the time of his birth covered it. As to the wack theory referenced by the OP, demanding an “original, long-form” record of birth as “better” proof than the certificate that’s an _official document issued by the State for **everybody** _ is just one more instance of lunacy afoot. If the dagblasted document were to be produced in evidence, the persons making the claim would then likely protest that the flag at the press conference had a gold fringe on it, or something like that (for all we know Hawaii has DESTROYED the originals of the on-the-spot record of birth and it’s all now microfiche or digitized pdf’s, and boy wouldn’t they go to town on THAT…) ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-a-natural-born-us-citizen/468083/69 "2008-10-17T03:03:24Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Actually, the issue is that no one knows what “natural born” really means. The founding fathers didn’t really explain it and no courts have ever tackled the issue. Constitutional scholars are debating whether it may be possible for two parents from the US to go on vacation and have a kid who would be a US citizen, but not a “natural born” US citizen. There is a lot of debate about McCain, who is absolutely a US citizen, but who was born in the Panama Canal Zone. Isn’t it obvious? You have to be born vaginally (or rectally, judging by some of our Presidents in the past), c-sectioners and clones don’t qualify! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-a-natural-born-us-citizen/468083/70 "2008-10-17T13:43:11Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > According to the Wikipedia article on [Ann Dunham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham) (full name Stanley Ann Dunham Soetoro), she was named after her father, who wanted a son. Finally we have the scandle that will sink Obama. ---
**Author:** ![audit1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@audit1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audit1)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-a-natural-born-us-citizen/468083/71 "2008-10-17T14:13:33Z")
This discussion brings up a question I have. Who would be the deciding authority of whether or not a particular person meets the constitutional qualifications of being president? The closest thing I can see in the constitution is the 20th admendment which states Congress shall provide if neither the president-elect and vice president-elect are qualified but have they done so? Does Congress not count the elector college votes? Does the Supreme Court get involved? ---
**Author:** ![EristicKallistic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/85e7bf/32.png) [@EristicKallistic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EristicKallistic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-a-natural-born-us-citizen/468083/72 "2008-10-17T16:11:32Z")
As a WAG, I’d say it’d never get that far. If there was a serious claim that a particular candidate wasn’t a proper citizen, his/her opponent would sue to get them removed from the ballot in the various states. Thus I’d guess it’d ultimately fall to the courts to make the final decision, up to and including the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-a-natural-born-us-citizen/468083/73 "2008-10-17T16:21:59Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > My daughter was born in Hawaii and has the exact same form The real scandal: Obama’s a doppelganger! > [@HubZilla](#): > > (except the names). Oh… never mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-a-natural-born-us-citizen/468083.md?page=3)