# Is Obama African-American? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 13, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606 "2010-07-13T23:48:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/1 "2010-07-13T23:48:42Z")
Obama’s father came to the US as an exchange student in the 1960’s, he was not the descendant of slaves. He does not come from a line of people victims of US based poverty or repression. His father it could be argued was from the elite class in Kenya. His mother had a Ph.D and his grandmother was the vice president of a bank. His grandfather was related to 6 US presidents. Aren’t there limits to the degree of which he belongs to the ethnic/cultural group known as African-Americans in the US? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/2 "2010-07-13T23:57:53Z")
There are (at least) 2 schools of thoughts. Some say you have to be descendant of former slaves to identify as African-American. Someone who moves here from Kenya is a Kenyan-American, if they what to identify with their ancestral home. Others say it’s whatever you self-identify as, or whatever most people would consider you if they saw you and knew nothing about you. Obama self-identifies as African-American, and who looks Black, so I have no problem with calling him that. Plus, for many Americans, the terms “Black” and “African-American” are interchangeable. They don’t get into the nuance of how a particular Black person got to be in this country. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/3 "2010-07-14T00:03:51Z")
What does class have to do with it? it depends on how you define “African-American.” It could be argued that he has an indisputable literal claim to being “African-American” in that his immediate ancestry is literally half-African and half American. The phrase “African-American” in the US has conventionally been used to refer to slave descendants, but there’s no rule saying that it can’t include children of African immigrants. Class and ancestry aside, there’s also the blunt fact he looks “black,” and always had the experience of being _perceived_ as “African-American,” in the sense of conventional black Americans, and perception is reality. I suppose he could accurately be called “Kenyan-American,” but’s still just a subset of “African-American.” I don’t really understand what you’re asking, or what you think class has to do with it. I think one test of whether he’s really “black” or “African-American” is whether he’s ever been called the N-word, and he passes that test in spades. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/4 "2010-07-14T00:06:35Z")
Obama’s own struggle with this question is one of the primary themes of _Dreams of My Father_, if you’re interested in his take on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/5 "2010-07-14T00:07:53Z")
Technically, Obama is far more African-American than the Americans of African descent that are commonly termed as such. Is he culturally a part of the latter group, especially given that his childhood was generally spent in Hawaii and Indonesia? That’s up for debate, I guess, but I’m not sure why we’d want to. Is there a purpose to such a debate? What is your purpose in raising the question? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/6 "2010-07-14T00:09:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > …Plus, for many Americans, the terms “Black” and “African-American” are interchangeable. They don’t get into the nuance of how a particular Black person got to be in this country. And some people can’t grast the concept that one needs to have some sort of connection to _America_ to be African-American. After Nelson Mandela was elected President of South Africa my 4th grade teacher went on and on telling house how apartheid was finally over not that South Africa had it’s first _African-American_ president. I pointed out to her that we wasn’t American at all, but she just told me to be quiet. :o ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/7 "2010-07-14T00:54:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Is Obama African-American? He’s whatever he self identifies with. That said, Kenya IS in Africa, so… > [@](#): > > Aren’t there limits to the degree of which he belongs to the ethnic/cultural group known as African-Americans in the US? No limits I’m aware of, no. People self identify with whatever cultural or ethnic groups they like, and these days no one really does a blood test. There are plenty of blue eyed, blond haired Hispanics I’ve met, for instance. Obama certainly has the creds, if they are even necessary, since his father is from Africa and he’s certainly an American. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/8 "2010-07-14T01:24:30Z")
He identifies himself that way. For me that’s really the beginning and the end of it even though the OP is correct that he has some differences in ancestry and background from most African-Americans. As long as we’re cataloging those, I’ll say that race relations in Hawaii are supposed to be different from most of the rest of the country and he also spent several years overseas as a boy. But it’s not like you would know about most of those differences by looking at him, which means he’s going to have some common ground with African-Americans as far as how people treat him. > [@Stoneburg](#): > > His mother had a Ph.D and his grandmother was the vice president of a bank. Have you thought this through, **Stoneburg**? There are black people whose parents have Ph.Ds. There are black people whose relatives did well in the corporate world. That doesn’t make him any more or less black. A rich African-American is not any less so because of his wealth. These things may not be the common African-American experience but most white people don’t have a mother with a Ph.D. African-Americans were oppressed historically and there are some gaps in achievement between black and white people on average but it would be a mistake to suggest that these things make him less black. And besides, all Michelle Obama _does_ have the ‘typical’ African-American ancestry on both sides of her family, so he’s also familiar with it that way. She’s as well educated as he is and I expect she was making more money than he did until he became nationally famous. > [@](#): > > His grandfather was related to 6 US presidents. This means nothing for a couple of reasons. First off, you can’t choose your relatives. And more importantly, when someone becomes a candidate or gets elected president, journalists will do _exhaustive_ genealogical research and start telling the public who the candidate’s fifth and eighth and eleventh cousins were. These people are not related in any sense except a technical one and it’s not like they enjoy any kind of material advantage from it. Obama’s maternal grandfather (Stanley Dunham) and George W. Bush’s are 9th cousins, Dunham and Harry Truman are seventh cousins once removed, he’s tenth cousins with Gerald Ford, and he’s third cousins seven times with removed from James Madison - as if that matters, Madison having died in 1836. He’s eighth cousins with Dick Cheney. Strictly speaking Dunham and Barack Obama are more closely related to Robert E. Lee (fifth cousins seven times removed). You might as well argue Obama is not black because he’s ninth cousins with Brad Pitt. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/9 "2010-07-14T01:31:17Z")
There are people much paler and European-looking than Obama who I have no problem calling “African American”. So even though I recognize that technically (using the most common meaning of the descriptor) he is not AA, I’m tend to be a lumper rather than a splinter on this issue. And I also tend to use “black” more than “AA” anyway since in most instances, the two are one and the same. He’s adopted African American culture (attends AA churches, married to an AA wife, speaks in AA vernacular when he’s inclined to, etc.) As far as I know, he does not carry with him any Kenyan culture. He’s accepted as an African American by the majority of African Americans, as far as I know. He has considerable black ancestry, and thus, using the conventions of contemporary US, he is not considered white. Mostly importantly, that’s how he has identified himself. Now, we can argue back and forth about whether he’s right. But to me, it doesn’t matter. If he were Bill Clinton and he was saying he was black just because he likes some meat on his women, along with his BBQ, then I would be offended and wouldn’t accept this stereotyped-based self-identity. But Obama’s claim to African American is just as legitmate as, say, the claim of my biracial blue-eyed, pale-skinned cousins. They don’t look “it”, and their cultural upbringing is probably even more nebulous than Obama’s, but technically they are “it”. It would 'xplode my brain trying to force it all to make sense. Race itself doesn’t make absolute sense. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/10 "2010-07-14T02:06:46Z")
Wait, wouldn’t he have to be an **American** first? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/11 "2010-07-14T02:15:45Z")
> [@](#): > > he was not the descendant of slaves. He does not come from a line of people victims of US based poverty or repression. I have to say that’s a pretty warped definition of what an African-American is. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/12 "2010-07-14T02:30:38Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > He’s whatever he self identifies with. That said, Kenya IS in Africa, so… > > No limits I’m aware of, no. People self identify with whatever cultural or ethnic groups they like, and these days no one really does a blood test. There are plenty of blue eyed, blond haired Hispanics I’ve met, for instance. Obama certainly has the creds, if they are even necessary, since his father is from Africa and he’s certainly an American. Right, other than Native American, there are no rules for this- _you are whatever you self-identify as._ Nor is there any _generally accepted_ definition of “African American” that excludes any given black person who lives in America. The two terms are mostly interchangable- at least to most dudes. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/13 "2010-07-14T03:00:26Z")
He’s Reptilian-Kenyan ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@Captain\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/14 "2010-07-14T04:24:41Z")
Is Obama African-American? Well, sort of, but not really. His father was African, but not American. Obama is an American (maybe not by birth, but that is not here nor there). Obama is different than most blacks because his ancestors were not American slaves. His mother was white, and was raised by white grandparents. When he was a child, he lived in Indonesia and had an Indonesian step-father. Later on, he went to University, either paid for by his white grandparents, scholarships (scholarship committees in Universities then were mainly white and Jewish), or through the taxpayers (the majority of taxpayers who are white.) Obama is loathed by Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and other poverty pimps. Obama has shown that a “black” man can make it without them. They (Jesse and Al) are “African Americans” in that their ancestors were slaves, while Obama is an interloper, 1/2 white, who wants nothing to do with them. Obama really doesn’t have any blacks to speak of in his inner circle. All whites and jews again. The street blacks love Obama because he is brown with a strange name (like them!). Like most American black politicians in power, Obama has spent all the money, has shown precious little for his efforts and is trying to keep his corruption off the table and away from the press (Blago and those other crooks from Chicago). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/15 "2010-07-14T04:29:05Z")
Pretty much all of that post is distorted or wrong. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/16 "2010-07-14T04:45:48Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Pretty much all of that post is distorted or wrong. [/QUOTE] Completely agree. It fairly oozed prejudice as well. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/17 "2010-07-14T05:02:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think one test of whether he’s really “black” or “African-American” is whether he’s ever been called the N-word, and he passes that test in **spades**. (bolding mine) That was a well thought out post. But I think I would have used a word other than “spades” :dubious: 😃 :smack: > [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > Obama is an American ( **maybe not by birth** , but that is not here nor there). (bolding mine) :dubious: I find it hard to take the rest of your post seriously after that. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/18 "2010-07-14T05:19:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > …I think one test of whether he’s really “black” or “African-American” is whether he’s ever been called the N-word, and he passes that test in spades. We’ll overlook the unintended pun… ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/19 "2010-07-14T05:20:18Z")
> [@Lord\_Mondegreen](#): > > (bolding mine) > > That was a well thought out post. But I think I would have used a word other than “spades” :dubious: 😃 :smack: > > (bolding mine) > > :dubious: > > I find it hard to take the rest of your post seriously after that. oops, apparently not! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606/20 "2010-07-14T05:22:19Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > There are people much paler and European-looking than Obama who I have no problem calling “African American”. So even though I recognize that technically (using the most common meaning of the descriptor) he is not AA, I’m tend to be a lumper rather than a splinter on this issue. And I also tend to use “black” more than “AA” anyway since in most instances, the two are one and the same. > > He’s adopted African American culture (attends AA churches, married to an AA wife, speaks in AA vernacular when he’s inclined to, etc.) As far as I know, he does not carry with him any Kenyan culture. > > He’s accepted as an African American by the majority of African Americans, as far as I know. > > He has considerable black ancestry, and thus, using the conventions of contemporary US, he is not considered white. > > Mostly importantly, that’s how he has identified himself. Now, we can argue back and forth about whether he’s right. But to me, it doesn’t matter. If he were Bill Clinton and he was saying he was black just because he likes some meat on his women, along with his BBQ, then I would be offended and wouldn’t accept this stereotyped-based self-identity. But Obama’s claim to African American is just as legitmate as, say, the claim of my biracial blue-eyed, pale-skinned cousins. They don’t look “it”, and their cultural upbringing is probably even more nebulous than Obama’s, but technically they are “it”. It would 'xplode my brain trying to force it all to make sense. Race itself doesn’t make absolute sense. I have some people close to me who are bi-racial and who would find your post quite offensive. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-african-american/546606.md?page=2)