# Is Obama all that different from other Presidents? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2011, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993 "2011-07-14T09:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/41 "2011-07-14T21:46:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Semantics. Call it tribalist or ethnicist or whatever and it boils down to the same thing. And some people are xenophilic. ---
**Author:** ![HamishBlake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@HamishBlake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HamishBlake)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/42 "2011-07-14T21:54:00Z")
> [@Profound\_Gibberish](#): > > Obama is black, and that brings out the latent racism in all of us, and absolutely frightens the active racists out there. Half of the crap that is piled on him now would not be there if he were white. > > –PG: Middle Class, Middle-Aged White Male His color is black(ish) but he’s just a much white as he is black. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/43 "2011-07-14T22:34:11Z")
> [@HamishBlake](#): > > His color is black(ish) but he’s just a much white as he is black. It doesn’t work that way in the US. If you look black\* and self-identify as black, you’re black. He satisfies both. - In the US, looking black means you have obvious ancestry in sub-Sahara Africa. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/44 "2011-07-14T22:46:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The obvious flaw in that argument is that it presumes that everyone on Earth has the same definition of “different”. No it doesn’t, it just presumes people can notice when someone has different traits than themself and those around them. Really, it’s a pretty basic instinct among pretty much all animals and humans are no exception. That being said, I didn’t mean to start a hijack, so if anyone wants to continue this discussion, please start a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/45 "2011-07-14T23:04:32Z")
Obama is a somewhat left of centre by American standards, by European standards he’s still left, of the same variety as say Tony Blair or Gordon Brown. Europeans still consider most American political issues to be an “issue” except for UHC (which both the European Right and Left support). Regardless of how “corporatist” American politics have gotten, America though is the most socially liberal it has been in its history. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/46 "2011-07-14T23:20:03Z")
> [@ajb867](#): > > Obama is moderate left, not moderate right. **If only!** ☹ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/47 "2011-07-14T23:21:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It doesn’t work that way in the US. If you look black\* and self-identify as black, you’re black. He satisfies both. > > - In the US, looking black means you have obvious ancestry in sub-Sahara Africa. In Obama’s case, of course, it means he is **not** an African-American in the usual sense of the phrase, that is, not a descendant of American slaves and not raised by or among such. (Nothing to do with his color, which is darker than many AAs so defined.) But, he did marry into that family. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/48 "2011-07-14T23:24:16Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > And some people are xenophilic. [Indeed.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XXXenophile)😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/49 "2011-07-14T23:29:03Z")
> [@RaleighRally](#): > > What is his position on immigration? Does he support the working class fear of wage dumping? [Judge for yourself:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_Barack_Obama#Immigration) > [@](#): > > **Immigration** > > Obama supports a guest worker program,[83] and voted in favor of the Bush administration backed Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007. Obama has said that he “will not support any bill that does not provide [an] earned path to citizenship for the undocumented population.” > > Obama has said that he does not believe that the 12 million illegal immigrants should be deported. He said “It’s not going to happen. We’re not going to go round them up … We should give them a pathway to citizenship.”[84] > > In September 2006, Obama voted for the Secure Fence Act, authorizing the construction of 700 miles (1,100 km) of fencing along the United States–Mexico border.[85] > > Obama has supported granting driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants.[86] > > In June 2007, Obama voted against declaring English as the official language of the federal government.[87] > > In November 2007, Obama stated that, “We can … go a long way toward meeting industry’s need for skilled workers with Americans. Until we have achieved that, I will support a temporary increase in the H-1B visa program as a stopgap measure until we can reform our immigration system comprehensively.”[87] > > In July 2007, Obama said, “Find out how many senators appeared before an immigration rally last year. Who was talking the talk, and who walked the walk – because I walked…I didn’t run away from the issue, and I didn’t just talk about it in front of Latino audiences.”[88][89] > > “I believe we must secure our borders, fix our broken immigration bureaucracy, and require the 12 million undocumented to get on a responsible path to citizenship. I will also increase the number of people we allow in the country legally to a level that unites families and meets the demand for jobs employers cannot fill” “I support comprehensive immigration reform that includes improving our visa programmes, including the H-1B programme, to attract some of the world’s most talented people to America”, Obama said in an interview with IANS in October 2008.[90] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/50 "2011-07-14T23:30:37Z")
> [@HumanBear](#): > > I’m not sure what other parties there are in the US but I assume there’s an actual liberal one somewhere? [Here’s a more-or-less complete list.](http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/51 "2011-07-14T23:46:58Z")
> [@HumanBear](#): > > I have seen a few times on this board that some people seem to think Obama is behaving significantly differently than his predecessors, or he at least thinks significantly differently. As an outsider, British, he doesn’t seem particularly radical to me, and all the things he’s done so far seem relatively sensible. Perhaps the only radical thing I can thing of being the healthcare changes, and that was nowhere near as radical as many people wanted. > > So is Obama all that different? Is he as left-leaning as he’s sometimes portrayed? He strikes me as a pragmatic man who has inherited a tough situation, and has been trying hard to work with everyone to find a solution, sometimes ending up with solutions that no-one likes because of compromise. I don’t feel any waves of evil from his administration, and while I understand that the Republicans would like different things I don’t understand the demonization of Obama at all. > > Am I just not well informed? When I am in Europe (UK, France, Italy most recently), I find that the most prominent reason that people think I am a right winger is that I don’t hate the US and all its policies. It seems like one of the guiding principles of the left in Europe is at least suspicion if not outright hatred of America. They seem to be quite puzzled that I can be a proud liberal, and a patriotic American at the same time. For Canadians, the idea that I am not (literally) burning cars and bombing government buildings because we do not have UHC in the US seems to indicate that I must be a right wing nut. So I have rather given up on paying any attention to European or (to a lesser extent) Canadian views of internal US politics. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/52 "2011-07-14T23:56:14Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Obama is a somewhat left of centre by American standards, by European standards he’s still left, of the same variety as say Tony Blair or Gordon Brown. Except that Blair and Brown represented a substantial rightward movement in the Labour party, to the extent that it created problems with the Conservatives at times as Labour encroached on many of the same policy positions\*. The Democrats are where the Republicans used to be on many economic issues (although still more socially liberal), while the Republicans are headed off into the far right distance. Obama wobbles around the center in general IMHO, depending on the topic, but I can’t think of any issue he’s far to the left on. \*In the UK, by the way, the Conservatives were hemmed in on the right by fringe (but politically viable) parties such as UKIP and the BNP who poached their more rightwing positions on Euroscepticism and immigration. This limited their ability to shift further right as the Republicans have. ---
**Author:** ![Raskolnikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@Raskolnikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raskolnikov)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/53 "2011-07-15T02:45:57Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > I always find this argument inane. let’s say you have 60 Democrats and 40 Republicans voting on a bill. Foe sake of the argument, we’ll assume the bill is in the public interest. > > The bill is filibustered by the Republicans so you need 60 votes, but in the end all 40 Republicans oppose the bill and 59 of the 60 Democrats support it. So whose fault is it that it didn’t pass? The Democrats who voted 59 to 1 to do something in the public interest or the Republicans who opposed it 40 to 0? did they not pass the HC bill on Reconciliation? i.e. 50 votes > [@sh1bu1](#): > > He proposed a health care bill that was similar to one that Republicans had supported in the past. That obviously makes him a leftist radical. Bill Clinton tried real health care reform, Obama passed the Republicans sloppy seconds that was the counter offer to Clinton’s plan in the early 90’s, that’s what passes for earth-shattering “liberalism” today > [@HamishBlake](#): > > His color is black(ish) but he’s just a much white as he is black. tell that to the President! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/54 "2011-07-15T02:47:58Z")
> [@Raskolnikov](#): > > tell that to the President! :dubious: I am certain he has been told, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/55 "2011-07-15T02:50:08Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > For Canadians, the idea that I am not (literally) burning cars and bombing government buildings because we do not have UHC in the US seems to indicate that I must be a right wing nut. I kind of doubt that the mainstream view here is that Americans should literally burn cars and destroy government buildings in order to get UHC. Most of us probably think you should work towards it legislatively, and find your system intolerable, but I dare say that’s slightly different. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/56 "2011-07-15T04:00:59Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > I kind of doubt that the mainstream view here is that Americans should literally burn cars and destroy government buildings in order to get UHC. Most of us probably think you should work towards it legislatively, and find your system intolerable, but I dare say that’s slightly different. Got a bit carried away with the “literally” but it is exactly my insistence that there isn’t really enough popular support for “Canadian style” (I think they mean OHP-style really) health insurance that is greeted with sheer disbelief. They seem to feel that there must be some kind of giant brainwashing scheme south of the border. But then USA-bashing seems to be only slightly less popular than hockey up there. You guys are all very polite and all, except for the little matter that not ever American travels to Canada for the sole purpose of being told how awful his country is. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/57 "2011-07-15T04:03:35Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Got a bit carried away with the “literally” but it is exactly my insistence that there isn’t really enough popular support for “Canadian style” (I think they mean OHP-style really) health insurance that is greeted with sheer disbelief. They seem to feel that there must be some kind of giant brainwashing scheme south of the border. They’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/58 "2011-07-15T04:25:57Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Got a bit carried away with the “literally” but it is exactly my insistence that there isn’t really enough popular support for “Canadian style” (I think they mean OHP-style really) health insurance that is greeted with sheer disbelief. They seem to feel that there must be some kind of giant brainwashing scheme south of the border. The polls showed a majority of the population was in favor of some kind of single payer/public option plan. The Democrats were sufficiently right wing that many of them defied their constituents in order to pass the corporate giveaway we got instead. Probably not coincidentally, many lost the next election - but they protected us from the Terrible Evil of health care at least. The Democrats are so right wing that many are willing to sacrifice their careers rather than throw the left or even the middle a bone. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/59 "2011-07-15T04:33:02Z")
Some of the vitriol that is aimed his way seems so over board , that I have to believe his color is the reason. We have not grown out of racist past . So Obama is different from other presidents. His politics should be really quite acceptable to the Repubs. But they hate him. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993/60 "2011-07-15T04:44:15Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Some of the vitriol that is aimed his way seems so over board , that I have to believe his color is the reason. We have not grown out of racist past . So Obama is different from other presidents. His politics should be really quite acceptable to the Repubs. But they hate him. His politics are hardly different from Clinton’s. The Pubs hated Clinton. It was quite astonishing to watch, at the time. It strained belief. But that’s **nothing** next to how they hate Obama. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-all-that-different-from-other-presidents/588993.md?page=4)