# Is Obama playing politics with Veterans Affairs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 17, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758 "2009-03-17T15:30:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2009, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758/41 "2009-03-18T23:40:12Z")
> [@](#): > > The only person who admitted to reading the first draft was Senator Voinovich. Nobody admitted to reading the final. Obviously the bonus clause was overlooked. [You sure about that?](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/03/fivethirtyeight-interviews-sen-jon.html) > [@](#): > > And I’ll give you a prime example. Reading that 800 page bill. “Oh, what a task!” (laughs) It was nothing! You sit down and you read the bill and you understand the bill. This isn’t like reading War and Peace for God’s sakes, there’s about a paragraph on each page and you just read the bill! But you have to read the bill. And to make the assumption that nobody reads the bill, and for people to stand up and say, “I couldn’t read the bill because it was too long,” it’s a cop-out. It’s a cop-out. You can always find time to do that kind of stuff. Because it’s part of your job. That was Senator John Tester (D, MT), by the way. Who is a different person than Senator Voinovich. And again, the reason the people who read the stimulus bill (and there _were_ such people) didn’t see “the bonus clause” in it was because the bonus clause _wasn’t_ in it. It was in AIG’s employment contracts, which are completely different documents than the stimulus bill. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758/42 "2009-03-19T03:21:02Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Well in the absence of National Health Care (which I support), shouldn’t groups with a higher risk factor pay more? Well, that certainly seems logical. But if it works out that way, it will mean that this change is not merely moving a burden off the gov’t and onto private insurers, which is what the admin is saying it’s doing. In fact, it will mean the burden is moving off the gov and onto military families (especially for enlisted, who face the greatest risks and are lowest-paid). ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758/43 "2009-03-19T04:18:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And again, the reason the people who read the stimulus bill (and there _were_ such people) didn’t see “the bonus clause” in it was because the bonus clause _wasn’t_ in it. It was in AIG’s employment contracts, which are completely different documents than the stimulus bill. Maybe we’re talking about different things, but there was [language](http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/03/who_asked_dodd_to_defang_bonus_provision.php) in the stimulus bill specifically protecting bonuses. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758/44 "2009-03-19T11:07:31Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Maybe we’re talking about different things, but there was [language](http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/03/who_asked_dodd_to_defang_bonus_provision.php) in the stimulus bill specifically protecting bonuses. It was written by [Senator Dodd](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7110145&page=1) (Senate Banking committee Chairman) who receieved money from AIG as did Senator Max Baucus (Senate Finance committee Chairman), Senator McCain, and Senator Obama. I’m sure there were others. $120,000 was donated after the first bailout payment in September. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758/45 "2009-03-19T11:13:07Z")
Left out the link showing Dodd [admitted it](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/03/18/breaking-i-was-responsible-for-bonus-loophole-says-dodd/). ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758/46 "2009-03-19T12:10:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It was written by [Senator Dodd](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7110145&page=1) (Senate Banking committee Chairman) who receieved money from AIG as did Senator Max Baucus (Senate Finance committee Chairman), Senator McCain, and Senator Obama. I’m sure there were others. $120,000 was donated after the first bailout payment in September. [CNN reports](http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/18/aig.bonuses.congress/index.html)that according to the concerned parties, TPTB wanted to protect the bonuses because AIG was contractually and therefore legally obligated to pay the bonuses, and to force AIG to strip the bonuses would be to invite lawsuits (that presumably couldn’t be won). It’s not enough to say that they added the language protecting the bonuses; one should explain why they did so. You imply it was because they were essentially bribed to do so. But that’s is clearly not the only reason one might support the move to preserve the bonuses. Now you could agree with this guy: > [@](#): > > Pennsylvania Rep. Paul Kanjorski, the hearing’s chairman, responded to Liddy’s statement by arguing that AIG should have refused to pay all the bonuses – regardless of its contractual obligations with the bonus recipients. > > “Let them sue us,” said Kanjorski, a Democrat. But to disagree with him is not obviously crazy or corrupt. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758/47 "2009-03-19T12:59:32Z")
> [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](#): > > [CNN reports](http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/18/aig.bonuses.congress/index.html)that according to the concerned parties, TPTB wanted to protect the bonuses because AIG was contractually and therefore legally obligated to pay the bonuses, and to force AIG to strip the bonuses would be to invite lawsuits (that presumably couldn’t be won). It’s not enough to say that they added the language protecting the bonuses; one should explain why they did so. You imply it was because they were essentially bribed to do so. But that’s is clearly not the only reason one might support the move to preserve the bonuses. I agree with the bonus package, I’m just showing the hypocrisy of the monkeys in Congress who don’t have a clue what they’re talking about and don’t take their job seriously enough to break down a 1200 page report so they (and the public) can make decisions about what’s in it. They will take money from companies, pass legislation, and then act surprised about their own actions if it looks bad publicly. My last job involved individual projects involving budgets of 30 to 100 thousand dollars. I had to quantify all of my recommendations with hard numbers. The decisions were leveraged against multi-million dollar contracts. Congress should explain their own decisions and be able to quantify them. The larger the amount spent, the greater and more detailed the explanation. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758/48 "2009-03-19T13:16:59Z")
I haven’t waded through all the posts, so maybe this idea has already been floated: I suspect that VA hospitals/Clinics are spottily distributed across the country, and inconvenient to reach for many, many of our military in need of medical attention. So, with a private sector medical plan, a warrior could get treatment frm the doctors/hospitals close to home. BTW I was horrified by the proposal, and I kept wondering what Obama was thinking. This is all I’ve got. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758/49 "2009-03-19T13:49:42Z")
> [@BarnOwl](#): > > I haven’t waded through all the posts, so maybe this idea has already been floated: > > I suspect that VA hospitals/Clinics are spottily distributed across the country, and inconvenient to reach for many, many of our military in need of medical attention. > > So, with a private sector medical plan, a warrior could get treatment frm the doctors/hospitals close to home. > > BTW I was horrified by the proposal, and I kept wondering what Obama was thinking. This is all I’ve got. Well, it doesn’t much matter any more, because [Obama has dropped the proposal.](http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/18/vets.insurance/index.html?iref=mpstoryview) I guess he doesn’t want to waste political capital duking it out with veterans’ groups. ---
**Author:** ![Rolken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Rolken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rolken)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758/50 "2009-03-19T15:14:06Z")
> [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](#): > > Well, it doesn’t much matter any more, because [Obama has dropped the proposal.](http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/18/vets.insurance/index.html?iref=mpstoryview) I guess he doesn’t want to waste political capital duking it out with veterans’ groups. Hey, this IS fun! ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758/51 "2009-03-19T15:42:03Z")
> [@Rolken](#): > > Hey, this IS fun! INteresting title you put there, because I have yet to see a single poll about this issue. Seems to me that Obama proposed some policy that looked good in theory, but wheen presented with the true potential effects of the policy, realized that the policy was ill-adivised and removed it. Yeah, I would rather have a President who doesn’t change his mind when presented with new information, that worked so well the last 8 years. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758/52 "2009-03-19T17:30:04Z")
Now you’re being whooshed. It’s a joke about misleading headlines saying different things from the stories that they head, like the one in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758/53 "2009-03-19T17:41:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Now you’re being whooshed. It’s a joke about misleading headlines saying different things from the stories that they head, like the one in the OP. Me, whooshed? Well I nev-…ohhh, that dog has a puffy tail!! ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758/54 "2009-03-19T17:52:39Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Me, whooshed? Well I nev-…ohhh, that dog has a puffy tail!! Is sex all you ever think about? -Joe [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-playing-politics-with-veterans-affairs/489758.md?page=2)