# Is Obama "Purging" The Military? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 28, 2015, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848 "2015-02-28T10:41:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/1 "2015-02-28T10:41:12Z")
So I recently found out that the Obama administration has been firing an awful lot of high-ranking military personnell. Hearing numbers like “[9 admirals and generals](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/23/military-sources-obama-administration-purging-commanders/)”, “[197 high-ranking officers](http://www.truthandaction.org/obama-fires-197-top-military-officers/)”, and the like. Now, I will say that it is quite telling that I can’t find a decent source on these claims; the only people talking about it are sources like “BeforeItsNews” or “TruthExposed”. But I don’t know what to think of these lists - they are, in fact, legitimate. These people apparently were fired, and it does seem to be quite a lot. Anonymous sources from within the military seem to indicate that they think it’s Obama “getting rid” of dissenters, as that Blaze article above indicates, but then again, it _is_ “The Blaze”, so I’m not sure what to think of this. I also have no context. I can’t find figures on how many officers of similar rank were fired under Bush. Can anyone help me out here? What’s going on? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/2 "2015-02-28T11:11:46Z")
Scaling down the military makes sense, because you don’t need as many soldiers during peacetime as you do when you’re invading two countries. As for who they are culling, it depends on who is being focused on. If the ones getting the sack are the ones who allowed rape to become such a problem, great! If it’s the ones who refuse to keep their mouths shut when somebody commits a war crime, not so great. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/3 "2015-02-28T12:14:46Z")
If he had dismissed any other federal employee, there would be applause. I especially like in the first article that “If you provide services for the government or have a contract, they can pull that out from under you.” Uh, yeah. Federal contract law is VERY clearly defined, and these jobs are typically extremely lucrative for retired high-level officials. And now you want to complain that what? The government doesn’t want to pay for goods and services it doesn’t need? What would he propose? That government agencies are required to cut massive checks to contractors just for kicks? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/4 "2015-02-28T12:24:54Z")
I understood the various branches discharges officers who are no longer promotable. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/5 "2015-02-28T13:19:32Z")
I’m not sure what the upside of “purging” the army (in the nefarious, remove ideological opposition sense of the word) is when you’ve only got one and a half year left in the seat, no third term available and not much in the way of projects left to implement. Looks more like jettisoning dead wood to me. From the second link : > [@](#): > > There have been rather a lot, to say the least, of firings, demotions, relievings and disciplinings of hundreds of officers in our military under this present regime. > The grounds range from “leaving blast doors on nukes open” to “loss of confidence in command ability” to “mishandling of funds” to “inappropriate relationships” to “gambling with counterfeit chips” to “inappropriate behavior” to “low morale in troops commanded” to you-name-it-you-got-it…and, now you’re gonna’ get it! Yeaaah… those all seem like pretty \*good \*reasons to remove people, conspiracy guy. You really want “mishandles nuclear missile silo” and “steals from the petty cash” guys to keep their post ?! From first link : > [@](#): > > The timing comes as the five branches of the U.S. armed forces are reducing staff due to budget cuts, and as U.S. troops are expected to withdraw from Afghanistan next year. “I think they’re using the opportunity of the shrinkage of the military to get rid of people that don’t agree with them or not tow the party line. Remember, as (former White House chief of staff) Rahm Emanuel said, never waste a crisis,” a senior retired general told TheBlaze on the condition of anonymity because he still provide services to the government and fears possible retribution. So there’s downsizing going on, which generally involves letting people go. That doesn’t scream nefarious, does it ? And what crisis is not being wasted here, BTW ? Or is the absence of any crisis the crisis ? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/6 "2015-02-28T13:29:25Z")
Oh hey, the first link also lists the 9 generals and why they were canned. So we’ve got : - guy in charge of the African theatre during Benghazi, who resigned. - guy who went on at least two separate racist tirades - guy who groped a civvy - guy who cheated on his wife (I guess that one’s not really warranted, but apparently it’s still part of UCMJ) - guy who got two of his guys killed by failing at camp security - counterfeit poker chip guy Which leaves two “suspicious” firings, one of which is apparently due to an investigated “innapropriate relationship” (honey pot ? conflict of interests with a contractor ? I dunno), an undisclosed “personnal behaviour” which could be anything from making too many off-colour jokes to serial rape, and a lone “no reason provided”. Still not feeling the huuuge conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/7 "2015-02-28T13:46:26Z")
It’s necessary to first say how often this has happened during previous administrations before one can say that it’s anything particularly related to Obama. How many military officers were fired during the past, say, fifty years for each year? Are there any records of such numbers? If not, how can one possibly say that recent numbers are higher? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/8 "2015-02-28T14:36:10Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > and a lone “no reason provided”. General Ham had just completed a normal twenty-four month assignment as a theater commander. He was 61 years old and had served a 39 year career. So it’s likely that his decision to retire at that point had no sinister causes behind it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/9 "2015-02-28T14:48:23Z")
Purge, schmurge, as mentioned, among the general officers the dismissals are mostly for the sort of causes why people are dismissed. Before someone says “but some of those are trifles”, High Command is a position of trust, not a tenure. No career federal official is _per se_ untouchable, being military is not an exception, and in that field if you get a disciplinary mark in your record that prevents you from being promoted or reassigned to a new command at the same rank level – or, if through no fault of your own you are repeatedly passed over for such(\*) – the expectation is that you’ll honorably walk away when you get the chance without being asked. (\*And there’s no obligation to create a post just so you can keep an officer on active duty if it’s time for him to cycle out of his current one, and all equal-or-higher slots are already otherwise filled) Plus if on top of all that, you are imprudent enough to bitch and moan about the CinC and your lawfully appointed superiors on the record, you’d better be a star performer to stay on a good career path. That is not new. Early in your career you learn to NOT give out free ammo to use against yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/10 "2015-02-28T15:21:21Z")
Obama is responsible for promoting every one of those generals listed to their top positions. If there really was a purge, would he have, you know, just not put them in those top jobs in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/11 "2015-02-28T15:51:59Z")
For years, it has been reported that the US military is top heavy. This well cited [article](http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/army-and-navy-cutting-generals-and-admirals-ever-so-slightly/) says that at the end of WWII we had 2 general or flag officers per 10,000 troops. As of 2010 we had 7 per 10,000. > [@](#): > > Since World War II ended, the number of general or flag officers per uniformed personnel has been increasing[13]—reaching an all-time high in 2010 of nearly seven general and flag officers per every 10,000 uniformed personnel.[14] This is an increase of more than half a general or flag officer per 10,000 uniformed personnel than when the war in Afghanistan began; one and a half more than when the Cold War ended; and five more than when World War II ended, as Figure 1 shows. There has been a fairly constant increase in the ratio of general and flag officers compared to all other uniformed personnel since the end of the Cold War, even though the military underwent a contraction during the 1990s and an expansion following the onset of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. > > As of April 2011, there were 964 general and flag officers. By comparison, at the end of the Cold War the U.S. had 1,017 general and flag officers. Thus, there has only been a nominal decrease in general and flag officers even though the number of active duty uniformed personnel has decreased by roughly 28 percent, the Air Force flies 35 percent fewer planes,[15] and the Navy has 46 percent fewer ships in its fleet.[16] In sum, the number of general and flag officers has barely fallen despite double-digit percentage drops in the size of the forces they command. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/12 "2015-02-28T16:09:24Z")
From the second link: > [@](#): > > Grand Total thus far: 197 ( **Mostly Colonel and above. 127 AF majors included** …they all occurred at one time, apparently). Someone does not know what “mostly” means. [And some more info about those Air Force majors](http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20110715/NEWS/107150323/Dismissed-majors-say-warning-wasn-t-enough): > [@](#): > > In early June, the records of 6,438 majors — 3,033 in or above zone — went before the promotions board for majors and lieutenant colonels; 1,054 majors in or above zone were selected for promotion. The records of the 245 majors twice passed over then went before a selective continuation board; 157 got the boot, 88 — many of them pilots — get to retire. So, no nefarious plan, just another RIFT. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/13 "2015-02-28T16:15:41Z")
I presume you mean RIF, not RIFT. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/14 "2015-02-28T16:15:55Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > From the second link: > > Someone does not know what “mostly” means. Not necessarily-- they might not know what “Colonel” or “Major” means. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/15 "2015-02-28T17:07:24Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I understood the various branches discharges officers who are no longer promotable. Has “up or out” ever gone away, except in the midst of major wars? ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/16 "2015-02-28T17:25:28Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > I presume you mean RIF, not RIFT. I’ve heard it both ways. And, yes. ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/17 "2015-02-28T17:48:51Z")
Well, Reduction in Force can certainly cause a rift… ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/18 "2015-02-28T18:01:12Z")
From first link: “A Pentagon official who asked to remain nameless because they were not authorized to speak on the matter said even “young officers, down through the ranks have been told not to talk about Obama or the politics of the White House.” Wonder what the hell this means? Not talking negatively about the POTUS at work; that’s been the standard for as long as I’ve been in (since '88) of officers who act professionally. If an officer talks to subordinates about how screwed up someone in the Executive branch is, how is that gonna affect good order and discipline, ya think? If a JO has to be reminded to not talk politics at work, I worry for their career. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/19 "2015-02-28T18:10:51Z")
I think sometimes military generals get axed for having a different or opposite opinion. Say an administration wants to focus on NATO-Europe, but another general thinks the Middle East is the bigger concern. Or an administration wants to focus on the F-35, but another general thinks the A-10 and close air support are more important. That general may be on the way out. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848/20 "2015-02-28T18:34:49Z")
Didn’t MacArthur get the boot because he wanted to expand the scope of the Korean War? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-purging-the-military/713848.md?page=2)