# Is Obama the first president with a college degree who has declined to release his college records? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 6, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119 "2012-11-06T18:38:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/21 "2012-11-06T20:37:54Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > - nobody who has made it to the top is stoopid. Some may be much brighter, but they are all pretty bright. You have only to look at the spectacular crash-and-burn by most of the other Republican contenders to see the kind of scrutiny they face to prove themselves. GWB? People-smart maybe (except perhaps when he looked into Putin’s soul …) but hmm. Maybe not stoopid, but definitely not bright. “It wasn’t a bailout. All the stockholders still hold the stock!” SS Agent: “Mr President, the country is under attack.” … … … (Bush continues to read to elementary school class …) Maybe we should have demanded Bush’s transcripts! (Yeah, I know, that wouldn’t have changed anything. Never mind.) He had a good sense of humor, though. Oops, sorry, this isn’t the political flames forum. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/22 "2012-11-06T20:39:29Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I had dinner Saturday with a college professor, who said that it is illegal for colleges and universities to release records, except to official recipients. (e.g., your undergraduate records released to the college where you go for post-grad education.) He said that he, himself, couldn’t get his records released to the newspapers; it isn’t legal. > > Is this just a California thing only? Or is it even true at all? (Wouldn’t be the first prof who told me something wrong!) It’s correct that the institution can’t release the records on their own due to [FERPA](http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html). ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/23 "2012-11-06T20:54:30Z")
I’ve never had an employer (government or private) ask for my transcripts. Nobody ever even asked what my grades were. Why would anybody give a shit? A degree or post-high school education is not a requirement for the office, let alone copies of transcripts. First the right accuses Obama of being an elitist. When that doesn’t wash, they accuse him of being not very bright and hinting that his records show him to be a poor scholar. The man is right not to respond to the loonies. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/24 "2012-11-06T21:35:50Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’ve never had an employer (government or private) ask for my transcripts. Nobody ever even asked what my grades were. Why would anybody give a shit? A degree or post-high school education is not a requirement for the office, let alone copies of transcripts. First the right accuses Obama of being an elitist. When that doesn’t wash, they accuse him of being not very bright and hinting that his records show him to be a poor scholar. The man is right not to respond to the loonies. My theory has always been that they don’t really care about the grades so much as the potential class choices (Communism 101) and whether he benefited from Affirmative Action. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/25 "2012-11-06T21:48:54Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > GWB? People-smart maybe (except perhaps when he looked into Putin’s soul …) but hmm. > > Maybe not stoopid, but definitely not bright. So why did you remove the qualifier “except figurehead”? From what I gather, GWB was a figurehead for the group behind him, the neocons and fundamentalists who wanted someone with appeal to front for their groups agenda. Not sure what the Harding story was, but I gather it was similar. Reagan, OTOH, was not as dumb as people wanted to make him out to be. Remember this is a self-made man, one of the leading Hollywood actors, the guy that was head of the actors’ union, and parlayed that into governor. Remember the story in his early days, that he faked half a baseball game when the radio station lost the phone link to the remote stadium. He made stuff up until he got the connection back, rather than say “sorry, we lost it.” Faking a game live on the air then getting caught back up takes a pretty sharp mind. But, we’re straying into GD territory. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/26 "2012-11-06T21:50:38Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > and whether he benefited from Affirmative Action. And yet they deny being racist. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/27 "2012-11-06T21:55:11Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > My theory has always been that they don’t really care about the grades so much as the potential class choices (Communism 101) and whether he benefited from Affirmative Action. There was a conservative meme a while back that “[no one who went to Columbia remembered seeing the guy](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/columbia.asp).” I think this is what the OP is backhandedly getting at. Obama transferred to Columbia midway through his college years, essentially after getting his shit together after some heavy party times at Occidental. Most folks at college form their circle of acquaintance early on; having missed this process at Columbia, Obama’s social milieu was probably pretty limited. Truth be told, I’d be surprised if very many people who were grad students during the time when I got my MA remember me today. I was newly married, commuting, and working an off-campus job. Ergo, I didn’t socialize much in those days. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/28 "2012-11-06T21:59:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That is totally untrue-it’s been over _five_ years. Is it totally untrue that over five is also over four? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/29 "2012-11-06T22:01:29Z")
Well I guess it is only fair since McCain andRomney have released _their_college transcripts. But wait, they haven’t either! What??!?! These guys are up to something! ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/30 "2012-11-07T00:15:29Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > [No.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072799.htm) > > They were subsequently leaked, as were Gore’s; Kerry [released his voluntarily after the campaign was over](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8127403/ns/politics/t/kerry-got-slow-start-yale-transcript-shows/), but declined to do so during the campaign. No idea about Clinton, and I’d be surprised if this was even an issue with previous generations of candidates. > [@md2000](#): > > Yes, usually even political opponents don’t go through the trouble of demanding college records. Draft records come to mind too, but those tend to disappear … > > I think Donald Trump is under the misapprehension that the guy who got to be head of Harvard Law Review did it by affirmative action. The guy who managed to become a senator and then the first black president at at time when most people did not believe it would happen in their lifetime - that this guy could not get by on merit? That he was a “gentleman’s C” student like his predecessor? Or else during his whole life he’s been say “born in Hawaii” but on his college applications would have put “born in Kenya”? > [@Marley23](#): > > You could say the same about Obama, who went to Harvard Law, graduated with honors, and was president of the law review. And yet here we are. Clinton, Rhodes Scholar, he certainly wasn’t a legacy so there couldn’t have been much to diminish him in his college records. The committee that awarded the scholarship had full access. Obama, Head of the Harvard Law Review. They don’t give that to losers. He was on the faculty of the University of Chicago, taught classes and turned down offers to get on the tenure track because he wanted to get into politics. And yes, if the student is over 18 years old the school does not release the records to the PARENTS, even if they are paying the whole tuition. This can happen in high school. Me, I’ve done very well for myself, thank you. Still, I am not proud of my college record. When I looked at it about 10 years after the fact I was a bit embarrassed. It would and could only be used to mock and diminish me. There is no upside to a release. Look at the birth certificate issue. Those that hate, hate. Release the proof and they claim forgery or dream up some other reason to hate. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/31 "2012-11-07T17:17:39Z")
The problem with Trump (well, one of many…) is that if he says “Release the birth certificate” and it’s released, (then they say “forgery”), and if Trump then says “release the college records” and if you release them, it adds more importance than the guy is worth and makes it look like he’s calling the shots. Better to ignore the guy. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/32 "2012-11-08T14:50:27Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Clinton? Rhodes scholar, the guy that was so good at speeches he was substituting for the governor at campaign rallies as a student? What would be the point of demanding his college records? To show he wasn’t smart? > > Frankly, unless the candidate has been pushed as a figurehead by a backroom organization - nobody who has made it to the top is stoopid. Some may be much brighter, but they are all pretty bright. You have only to look at the spectacular crash-and-burn by most of the other Republican contenders to see the kind of scrutiny they face to prove themselves. I am not making this up. When I mentioned to a friend of mine that W had degrees from Yale and Harvard, my friend replied instantly, “Yeah, but who took his final exams?” So if you want to start a conspiracy theory, be my guest. I don’t actually believe this, incidentally. But I can’t think of any way in which he demonstrated any great intelligence. Someone famously said about FDR something like, “Not a great intellect, but a great temperament.” ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/33 "2012-11-08T15:01:03Z")
The thing about Bush is, if he was the regional manager of a supermarket chain, you’d think he was pretty sharp. He only seems like a bit of a dullard because he was elected to the highest office in the country. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/34 "2012-11-08T18:01:31Z")
What was it Churchill said about Clement Atlee? “A modest little man, with much to be modest about…” Bush got a BA degree in history. Allegedly, he got C’s. When I went to university, the science students had many comments about people with degrees in history… 🙂 He also got an MBA. While this demonstrates he was not stoopid, the general track record of MBAs dealing with real world issues does suggest that it is not that significant. To be fair, you do need _some_ smarts with numbers to get by in MBA-land. Too bad the years 2000-2008 did not demonstrate this facility. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/35 "2012-11-08T18:37:47Z")
if he released them it would start a paper trail to his high school transcripts. that leads a trail to his grade school transcripts. that leads a trail to his kindergarten transcripts. that leads a trail to his daycare transcripts at the Tarzan and Jane Daycare Center in Kenya where he was born and the jig is up. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/36 "2012-11-08T18:44:01Z")
Not that it matters at this point, but as a comparison, Mitt Romney didn’t release any college records either. And while he did release two years of income tax returns, he released fewer than a lot of other presidential candidates and said his tax returns were not the public’s business. I don’t know if anyone asked about his college records, but I imagine he felt the same way about those. The OP phrased the question only in terms of presidents, but in terms of both presidents and candidates, there was nothing exceptional about the things Obama has released. Well, unless you mean he’s released _more_ documents than other candidates. I don’t think anyone else had released his birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/37 "2012-11-08T18:52:32Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Someone famously said about FDR something like, “Not a great intellect, but a great temperament.” Justice Holmes. “A second class intellect. But a first class temperament.” ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/38 "2012-11-08T18:58:51Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > So why did you remove the qualifier “except figurehead”? Oversight! > [@](#): > > From what I gather, GWB was a figurehead for the group behind him, the neocons and fundamentalists who wanted someone with appeal to front for their groups agenda. Not sure what the Harding story was, but I gather it was similar. > > Reagan, OTOH, was not as dumb as people wanted to make him out to be. Remember this is a self-made man, one of the leading Hollywood actors, the guy that was head of the actors’ union, and parlayed that into governor. Remember the story in his early days, that he faked half a baseball game when the radio station lost the phone link to the remote stadium. He made stuff up until he got the connection back, rather than say “sorry, we lost it.” Faking a game live on the air then getting caught back up takes a pretty sharp mind. > > But, we’re straying into GD territory. Yeah, but I have to say, when I was overseas during Reagan’s term, I met a lot of people who said he was a puppet for the military-industrial complex. My reply was that there was no need for strings. GWB, on the other hand, needed Cheney. I miss GHWB, whom I did not vote for, but wish I had. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/39 "2012-11-08T19:03:01Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Justice Holmes. “A second class intellect. But a first class temperament.” According to Paul Boller, Holmes was actually discussing Teddy Roosevelt, who appointed the great jurist to the court in 1902. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119/40 "2012-11-08T22:13:05Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Oversight! > Yeah, but I have to say, when I was overseas during Reagan’s term, I met a lot of people who said he was a puppet for the military-industrial complex. My reply was that there was no need for strings. GWB, on the other hand, needed Cheney. > > I miss GHWB, whom I did not vote for, but wish I had. Not only strings - but Cheney pulled the trick “I’ve vetted all these guys for vice president, and you know what? I’m just as good as any of them…” Bush fell for that line (The force can have a strong influence, etc.) Hence, we had a VP who had no real connection to politics except mainly back rooms, an exception compared to most choices; maybe more people should make that sort of choice. Cheney also guaranteed himself a spot right next to the levers of power. Harriet Meirs tried the same stunt to get herself onto the Supreme Court, but this time it failed. Basically, SCOTUS also requires people of significant intellect, and HM may have been a political animal but she certainly wasn’t the level of intellect required of a Supreme. It’s one thing to nominate a biased judge, it’s another to nominate one whose only real qualification is her bias. Even the Republicans rebelled. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obama-the-first-president-with-a-college-degree-who-has-declined-to-release-his-college-records/640119.md?page=3)