# Is Obamacare causing layoffs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 21, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685 "2012-11-21T03:33:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/121 "2012-11-27T10:51:20Z")
> [@apriori234](#): > > Frylock, based on the fact that within this discussion you’ve presented your views on the law without presenting citations yourself, I am not aware of having done so. Please elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/122 "2012-11-27T14:23:32Z")
> [@apriori234](#): > > You want an easy way to know if I’m full of stuff? You have access to the internet. With the sheer number of things I’ve said, you should have be able to quickly counter anything I’ve put forward. I’m still waiting to hear why the doctor shortage is somehow related to Obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/123 "2012-11-29T00:58:24Z")
Just a data point. Just got a memo from the owners. Part time and extra board people will be having their hours cut. Not a huge amount but enough to keep everyone in those categories under the hour cap for insurance. This starts almost immediately as the hour calculation in 2014 will go back to the beginning of 2013. Instead of increasing a part time employees hours when business picks up, more extra board people will be brought on instead. So a bunch of extraboard and part time people, many of whom I know want to go full time, will not have that chance now. Slee ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/124 "2012-11-29T01:04:58Z")
My youngest son is in the same boat…told they aren’t letting anyone go full time, and instead will bring on more part-time people instead. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/125 "2012-11-29T03:41:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For the business of PR, of course. where is the PR value in this? There is a simple logic test behind the question of whether Obamacare will cause layoffs. Does adding cost to businesses affect profitability and if so will it affect a company’s ability to retain employees. I’d say the answer has to be yes for a percentage of businesses. I don’t see how it could do otherwise in a world economy. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/126 "2012-11-29T04:31:46Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Just a data point. Just got a memo from the owners. Part time and extra board people will be having their hours cut. Not a huge amount but enough to keep everyone in those categories under the hour cap for insurance. This starts almost immediately as the hour calculation in 2014 will go back to the beginning of 2013. > > Instead of increasing a part time employees hours when business picks up, more extra board people will be brought on instead. > > So a bunch of extraboard and part time people, many of whom I know want to go full time, will not have that chance now. > [@XT](#): > > My youngest son is in the same boat…told they aren’t letting anyone go full time, and instead will bring on more part-time people instead. ☹ I don’t see how this differs from the last decade, or so. Telling full-timers they must work more overtime while making a concerted effort to hire only part-timers has been my experience with most industries for several years–long before the ACA was even debated, much less passed into law. I first saw this trend, (as a trend rather than an occasional event), in 2001 and it has not changed in the ensuing years. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/127 "2012-11-29T06:34:39Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I don’t see how this differs from the last decade, or so. > > Telling full-timers they must work more overtime while making a concerted effort to hire only part-timers has been my experience with most industries for several years–long before the ACA was even debated, much less passed into law. I first saw this trend, (as a trend rather than an occasional event), in 2001 and it has not changed in the ensuing years. In support of this, about half my daughter’s friends, who finished college in the height of the recession, got 30 hours of work for precisely this reason. Companies who give healthcare historically or for their higher ranks use this method to avoid it as much as possible. I wonder if the people mentioned would have gotten healthcare benefits if they worked full time. I somehow doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/128 "2012-11-29T06:43:42Z")
I like conservative logic: Left: If we have national health insurance paid through taxes we can cover everybody and pay less like they do in every other country in the world. Right: No, that is too radical. We need to keep our private insurance model that links healthcare to your employer. Left: OK, that’s not optimal. but we can make that work if everyone is required to buy insurance and all employers are required to provide it for full time workers. Right: Oh, look at your stupid plan, requiring employers to provide insurance means they will employ less full time people. Left: But… ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/129 "2012-11-29T14:58:50Z")
The thing is, employers have always favored a higher number of part time employees as compared to full time employees so they didn’t have to pay benefits _before_ the ACA was passed. This is not a new strategy to avoid paying for benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/130 "2012-11-29T15:02:27Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > Right: No, that is too radical. We need to keep our private insurance model that links healthcare to your employer. That’s a bit unfair. A number of Republicans have proposed decoupling the health insurance tax break from employer plans (which is a good idea). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/131 "2012-11-29T15:28:21Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I don’t see how this differs from the last decade, or so. > > Telling full-timers they must work more overtime while making a concerted effort to hire only part-timers has been my experience with most industries for several years–long before the ACA was even debated, much less passed into law. I first saw this trend, (as a trend rather than an occasional event), in 2001 and it has not changed in the ensuing years. It might not differ, but in my sons case he’s been working his way to become full time for the last two years. Several of his friends and coworkers became full time employees in that time, and my son has been told he would too…until recently (last week or so) when they had a meeting and were told that there is a freeze on making people full time, and instead they are going the route of bringing in more part time workers, and more temporary workers. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/132 "2012-11-29T16:06:18Z")
> [@XT](#): > > It might not differ, but in my sons case he’s been working his way to become full time for the last two years. Several of his friends and coworkers became full time employees in that time, and my son has been told he would too…until recently (last week or so) when they had a meeting and were told that there is a freeze on making people full time, and instead they are going the route of bringing in more part time workers, and more temporary workers. I advise your son (and friends and coworkers) to polish up their resumes and start looking for a new job. This employer has made it clear what they think of their employees: as temporary disposable units that can be swapped out, altered or replaced at will. They may wish to continue working for such an outfit - I would advise against it. I know that he cannot just find a fantastic job immediately, but now is the time to start looking, while he continues to work for his current employer. However, he should realize that they do not value him at all, and have given him the message that he has no future there. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/133 "2012-11-29T17:00:09Z")
> [@XT](#): > > It might not differ, but in my sons case he’s been working his way to become full time for the last two years. Several of his friends and coworkers became full time employees in that time, and my son has been told he would too…until recently (last week or so) when they had a meeting and were told that there is a freeze on making people full time, and instead they are going the route of bringing in more part time workers, and more temporary workers. So they’re stringing him along and lo’ there comes a perfect excuse to string him along even more! ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/134 "2012-11-29T17:09:46Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > IHowever, he should realize that they do not value him at all, and have given him the message that he has no future there. So listen. My impression is that this is true of practically every employer that exists. They do not value their workers except as disposable labor units, and they communicate that message regularly, whether with candy coating or not. Is this not true? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/135 "2012-11-29T18:07:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s a bit unfair. A number of Republicans have proposed decoupling the health insurance tax break from employer plans (which is a good idea). Damn right. Too many people have health insurance now, so the 1% sometimes have to wait for an appointment. This is only a good idea if it drives us to universal coverage as workers pay more both from losing a large part of the employer contribution and from losing the benefits of large companies negotiating better prices with suppliers. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/136 "2012-11-29T18:10:38Z")
Decoupling = extending the tax break to individual plans, not getting rid of it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/137 "2012-11-29T19:07:27Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > So listen. My impression is that this is true of practically every employer that exists. They do not value their workers except as disposable labor units, and they communicate that message regularly, whether with candy coating or not. > > Is this not true? To a certain extent, but there exists a wide variation in how various employers treat and value employees. I think many small businesses can treat their employees remarkably well, and are rewarded by low turnover of staff and hard working folks. What we need to do as employees is to choose the job (and employer) that benefits us the most, and certainly don’t assume that they have our best interests at heart. If an employer stops even the pretense of valuing their employees… it’s time to move on. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/138 "2012-11-29T19:34:26Z")
> [@Linden\_Arden](#): > > There have probably been 50-100 firings by pissed off wingnuts but any real measurable job loss won’t be seen until the next BLS report. > > The Papa John’s CEO actually said he would be hiring 5000 people (most in the US) in a column today. Funny you say that, why do you think he is hiring more people? Is it so he can cut hours? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/139 "2012-11-29T20:01:23Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Instead of increasing a part time employees hours when business picks up, more extra board people will be brought on instead. Just wait until they figure out what all that hiring, training, paperwork and the like costs them instead. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685/140 "2012-11-29T20:14:42Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Just wait until they figure out what all that hiring, training, paperwork and the like costs them instead. I’m sure they’ll find a way to blame someone else for that as well. It’s the hallmark of a failing business; blame others for your own screwups until the company ceases to exist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-obamacare-causing-layoffs/641685.md?page=8)