# Is Old Music Killing New Music? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [January 24, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320 "2022-01-24T18:04:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/41 "2022-01-25T13:57:32Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > My point is that it’s hard for new artists to break through because not only are they competing with each other for our attention, they’re also competing with every other artist from the past 60 years. That makes their job much, much harder. That’s been true for, well, centuries. Something had to come along to outcompete and supersede every form that went before it. Maybe the new stuff doesn’t yet have enough to distinguish it from the past. Do something revolutionary _and_ good and it’s bound to succeed. Lame clickbait blaming “old” music is…lame. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/42 "2022-01-25T14:01:50Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Something weird is going on with our culture. When I was a kid in the ‘70s-80s I thought the 60s was old, the 50s were twee (had I known the word at the time), and anything older was stone age. That goes for cars, music, film, clothing, anything. What about books? Certainly, there are people interested in the latest best-sellers, but the world of literature isn’t subject to fashion and trends and a concern with what’s new, the way clothing, cars, etc. have been. There’s nothing all that unusual about a teenager or younger adult having a favorite writer who is currently either in the late stages of their career, or dead. Nowadays, people have relatively easy access to any of the music that has ever been recorded; and many of the most popular ways of listening to music require you to choose what music you listen to. As a result, there may well be a change in how people think of recorded music, from something ephemeral and changing, to something that accumulates over time and gets added to a library. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/43 "2022-01-25T14:02:39Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > That’s been true for, well, centuries. True, but not to this degree. In the past, you had to look for old, rare stuff - go through your parents’ album, browse record stores, listen to late-night radio shows. Now everything, new and old, is equally available, which means nothing is old and nothing is new. That said, the fact that half the hits on the charts are written by the same four Swedes doesn’t help. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/44 "2022-01-25T14:05:18Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > But did they used to? The Simpsons have been making fun of the Grammys since the early 90s, so I’d say probably not. ---
**Author:** ![batsto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b2d939/32.png) [@batsto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/batsto)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/45 "2022-01-25T14:16:44Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Yes! It’s heavily influenced by hip hop and specifically trap, as **MrDibble** mentioned. Can someone explain what ‘trap’ is? I’ve never come across this term. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/46 "2022-01-25T14:21:04Z")
I’m not seeing a lot of Swedes on this list of songs currently popular in Israel.\* > **[Top 100: Israel](https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/top-100-israel/pl.0c9765e5330048af96c2336fa7bc3525)** > > Playlist · 100 Songs \*I couldn’t tolerate more than a few seconds of the top songs on that list. Could it be a conspiracy by the Israeli government to keep people indoors to control the spread of Covid-19? ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/47 "2022-01-25T14:30:22Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > “I don’t even know who he is.” “Oh, by the way, which one’s Pink?” ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/48 "2022-01-25T14:30:28Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Something weird is going on with our culture. When I was a kid in the ‘70s-80s I thought the 60s was old, the 50s were twee (had I known the word at the time), and anything older was stone age. That goes for cars, music, film, clothing, anything. The same scale doesn’t seem to apply anymore. Our culture seems to have been largely frozen for 40 years. Sure, some stuff is superficially different, but there’s not a lot of NEW making its way into the mainstream. Skyrim just launched a 10 year anniversary edition for a video game with no meaningful differences to the original, Call of Duty is still Call of Duty, Vinyl is popular again despite providing inferior music reproduction and a highly volatile medium. We’re still wearing denim. Jackson’s rendition of Lord of the Rings, and the Harry Potter movies are coming up on 20 years old and are still super popular with young and old alike. When I was 11 years old I didn’t even know any movies that were from 1947—Miracle on 34th Street, maybe, which I still haven’t bothered to watch. It’s like marketeers are afraid of anything that doesn’t fit the old equations, and they don’t have the courage **or brain power to come up with ways to make genuinely new stuff relevant to the masses.** Maybe we’ve just run out of completely new genres to invent and have entered a phase of making smaller modifications to the old stuff. On a similar thread, I was advised that K-pop is something new that all the young kids are listening to today. I’m sure that’s true, but also seems to be misleading. I listened to some K-pop on Apple Music and Pandora. IMHO it sounded just like the boy band music of the late 90s to present day, just in Korean. I listened to Billie Elish and thought she sounded just what Leonard Cohen would sound like if he had been a young woman. Drake does sound different than Notorious BIG and Tupac, but the difference is a lot smaller than Notorious BIG and Tupac compared to MC Hammer or Ton Loc, despite the time difference in the former being 20+ years and the latter being around 5 years. > [@Alessan](#): > > My point is that it’s hard for new artists to break through because not only are they competing with each other for our attention, they’re also competing with every other artist from the past 60 years. That makes their job much, much harder. The question is why this wasn’t true back in the day. Why do todays artists still compete against the likes of those performing at the Super Bowl this year, which includes Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Eminem, and Mary J. Blige? When I was a kid in the 80s, Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Guns N Roses, MC Hammer, Madonna, Michael Jackson, and so on didn’t seem like they were competing against The Beatles or The Doors, much less agains Frank Sinatra or Sammie Davis Jr. More importantly, when Snoop, Dre, and Eminem were getting started, they were no longer competing against all those artists from the 80s that I mentioned. The other issue, which I think gets overlooked by debating about specific artists and bands rather than the music itself, is whether or not the music by new / young artists is really all that different. That’s where I think the posters bringing up new acts should instead be suggesting specific music. IMHO the newer artists new music just isn’t as different as new music used to be. Small changes in what a biologist would put in the category of a new genus or species yes. Large changes in what a biologist would put in the order of a new phylum or order, not so much. Those kinds of changes seem to have stopped happening around 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/49 "2022-01-25T14:40:46Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > I listened to Billie Elish and thought she sounded just what Leonard Cohen would sound like if he had been a young woman. Nice one! I love Cohen and have a growing admiration for Eilish, but I never made this connection. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/50 "2022-01-25T14:50:45Z")
I’m not really the expert, but I think Travis Scott is known to be a trap artist. ---
**Author:** ![batsto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b2d939/32.png) [@batsto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/batsto)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/51 "2022-01-25T14:52:08Z")
Now if only I knew what kind of music he makes…(off to youtube to find out) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/52 "2022-01-25T14:53:09Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > \*I couldn’t tolerate more than a few seconds of the top songs on that list. Could it be a conspiracy by the Israeli government to keep people indoors to control the spread of Covid-19? Ugh, don’t talk to me about the Israeli music scene - the whole industry has gone to hell since Arik Einstein died. Utterly hopeless. But no, by “Swedes” I mean guys like [Max Martin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Martin), who have written and produced most of the international hits in the past 20 years or so, usually in an assembly-line method, and often uncredited. The age of the singer-songwriter basically ended without anyone noticing. > **[The Elaborate Charade to Obfuscate Who Writes Pop Music](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/10/hit-charade/403192/)** > > Meet the unknown people behind the best-known songs. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/53 "2022-01-25T14:54:01Z")
This is a pretty trappy song, I believe: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/_XtIIRAS_vE/maxresdefault.jpg "Nicki Minaj - Chun Swae (Lyrics) feat. Swae Lee") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XtIIRAS_vE) To me, it’s a very basic track with a rapper on top, normally rapping in triplets or something. I don’t like it, but it’s pretty popular now. Fetty Wap, who I really can’t stand, is another practitioner. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/54 "2022-01-25T15:05:33Z")
> [@batsto](#): > > > [@RitterSport](#): > > > > Yes! It’s heavily influenced by hip hop and specifically trap, as **MrDibble** mentioned. > > Can someone explain what ‘trap’ is? I’ve never come across this term. > Trap music uses synthesized drums and is characterized by complex [hi-hat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hi-hat) patterns, tuned [kick drums](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_drum) with a long [decay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Envelope_(music)) (originally from the [Roland TR-808](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_TR-808) [drum machine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_machine)), and lyrical content that often focuses on drug use and urban violence.[[5]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_music#cite_note-jgenrechar-5)[[6]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_music#cite_note-6)[[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_music#cite_note-cr-7)[[8]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_music#cite_note-topman-8) It utilizes very few instruments and focuses almost exclusively on [snare drums](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snare_drum) and double- or triple-timed hi-hats. > **[Trap music](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_music)** > > Trap is a subgenre of hip hop music that originated in the Southern United States, with lyrical references to trap starting in 1991 but the modern sound of trap appearing in 1999. The genre gets its name from the Atlanta slang term "trap house", a house used exclusively to sell drugs. Trap music uses synthesized drums and is characterized by complex hi-hat patterns, tuned kick drums with a long decay (originally from the Roland TR-808 drum machine), and lyrical content that often focuses Pioneers... ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/55 "2022-01-25T15:09:40Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > To me, it’s a very basic track with a rapper on top, normally rapping in triplets or something. I don’t like it, but it’s pretty popular now. Fetty Wap, who I really can’t stand, is another practitioner. Maybe it’s because I’ve lived all the years in between, but that just doesn’t sound like a song from a totally brand new genre compared to the late 90s early 00s. Let’s say you had a time machine and played that to a bunch of kids in 2001. Let’s say you use that same time machine to play some Michael Jackson or Guns N Roses to a bunch of kids in 1965. My guess is that the 2001 kids would be a lot less impressed with the originality compared to the 1965 kids. ---
**Author:** ![batsto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b2d939/32.png) [@batsto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/batsto)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/56 "2022-01-25T15:24:32Z")
I’ve never heard of any of this…but according to that Wikipedia article, it originated in the early 2000s, so I wouldn’t expect people to think it sounds totally new compared to the early 2000s. Or is the case that, while it’s been around for a long time, it’s only recently started to become popular? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/57 "2022-01-25T15:30:27Z")
Trap has been the overwhelmingly dominant genre in rap music for well over a decade now. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/58 "2022-01-25T15:43:10Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Let’s say you use that same time machine to play some Michael Jackson or Guns N Roses to a bunch of kids in 1965. Fast forward from 1965 to 1969 when the first Led Zeppelin album was released and the GnR would be instantly recognizable as the same genre. Did you ever see Hot Tub Time Machine? There’s that scene where the band plays Let’s Get it Started, which is a song from the future for them and they’re blown away. When I watched that scene, I realized how blown away I would be if that song showed up in the 80s. Similarly, someone who is really into rap in the 90s would be stunned by the new stuff coming out. Songs from musical genres that I don’t know much about all sound the same to me. Jazz all sounds very similar to me, and I probably couldn’t tell you if something was recorded in 1965, 75, 85…, 2015. But someone who likes that music definitely could. When I play 90s hip hop for my kids, they like it, but they instantly recognize it as old and out of date. ---
**Author:** ![batsto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b2d939/32.png) [@batsto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/batsto)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/59 "2022-01-25T15:48:28Z")
I agree. I feel that way about hip-hop or rap. Because I don’t really listen to it, it all sounds the same to me (I don’t even know what the difference is. And those trap songs that were mentioned fall into the same category—I just call it all ‘rap’). My wife thinks a lot of the music I do like sounds the same, but of course I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320/60 "2022-01-25T15:51:15Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Maybe we’ve just run out of completely new genres to invent and have entered a phase of making smaller modifications to the old stuff. To be sure, there are only so many ways you can pluck string and slap drums, and there’s only so much one can say about current events (which also seem to be recycling). One really cool music thing is a sort of random collaboration like can be found on TikTok. Someone grabs a random meme with sound and adds to it, and someone adds to that, etc. It’s not exactly a new concept, but in its current iteration born largely of the pandemic and evolving technology it is allowing musicians to create something new and unpredictable. So to speak back to the OP, it could just be that music as has been traditionally understood has panned out, but there is [something new](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8arRdBht9WU) if we can be willing to expand our definition of ‘music’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-old-music-killing-new-music/958320.md?page=4)