# Is Omar being a douche? More than just a Little. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306 "2011-06-29T20:17:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/61 "2011-06-30T01:36:05Z")
I think it is more honest and helpful to just tell the OP, “Suck it up, bitch, you’re on your own and you need to deal with the reality of that” than it is to say, “You should be more careful about the kind of men you choose.” There is NO WAY to know if someone will change from one kind of person to another in the face of dramatic circumstances. A man can be a great guy, giving and understanding in every way, and then \*change \*when faced with the prospect of fatherhood. I have changed up on my husband in the past, about how I feel about monogamous relationships. He chose a woman that he believed would be a great traditional wife and I really believed that too. Then, I changed. I never pretended to be something I’m not…giving him clues that I would be more trouble than he thought…I simply changed. It can happen to anyone, so the whole, “you should have been more careful with who you fuck” thing is kind of hollow. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/62 "2011-06-30T01:37:25Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > That’s why I said “consequences of sex”, not “baby”. I tend to feel a partner would also have an ethical responsibility (if not a legal one) if they gave their partner an STD or some other sort of consequence resulted. You can’t ask for responsibility with rights. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/63 "2011-06-30T01:40:15Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Well girls, if anything, this sort of attitude frees us up from having any ethical qualms about terminating a pregnancy or declining to divulge a pregnancy to the sperm donor. I mean, guys aren’t legally responsible for fetuses, right? Therefore they have zero rights or input on what happens during a pregnancy. Time to alert Planned Parenthood: victory is ours. All of this is exactly right. Why SHOULD you have any qualms about what you do with your own body? I can’t think of a worse idea than giving men any legal jurisdiction over a woman’s pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/64 "2011-06-30T01:40:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I would help them, of course, but I would not support them in trying to get the scumbag to pay her medical bills for a miscarriage. For a BABY -yes, but until there is a baby, there is no paternal responsibility (and non paternal rights). If we agree that a woman’s rights over her body are autonomous, then her responsibilities have to be autonomous as well. But the OP wasn’t asking for support or even agreement: she was asking about the law. It was a fairly ignorant question, but we get those a lot in GQ. > [@](#): > > Did she say she felt the pregnancy was a mistake? I’m not sure I got that sense. What she wants is for him to share financial responsibility for a medical misfortune which was not his fault. > > None. And no rights either. You can’t have it both ways. Until there is a live birth, it’s just her body. We cross posted, but my point remains the same: even if this is your stance, would your priority be helping her, or making sure she knew how badly she fucked up? I mean, if someone wanted to start a spin-off Great Debate “Ethical Obligations of a Father in a Miscarriage”, I would never thought anything of it. It’s clearly a topic where people can disagree, and a fairly interesting topic. But this was a GQ thread. The poster was clearly in a great deal of pain. It’s the worst kind of threadshitting to make it be about how much of a fuck up she is. How can you possibly think that was appropriate behavior? ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/65 "2011-06-30T01:40:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > None. And no rights either. You can’t have it both ways. Until there is a live birth, it’s just her body. I see your point, and I can’t argue with that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/66 "2011-06-30T01:42:21Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I can’t agree with this stance, and I hope you can see that it’s an interpretation that reasonable people can disagree on. You disagree with what, exactly? You believe the miscarriage was his fault? If not, then why should he have to pay for it? > [@](#): > > Given that, why do you think it was a good idea to try to drive that point home to the OP? She was asking a general question about the law. Omar’s intent seemed to be entirely to make her feel bad for no real gain: she certainly wasn’t disclaiming all responsibility, and his comments were highly unlikely to make her reassess her role in the proceedings. Their only function was to be hurtful. How is that not being a douche? Because she was trying to get somebody else to pay for something that wasn’t his fault. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/67 "2011-06-30T01:43:44Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You can’t ask for responsibility with rights. Yes you can? I think I have a right to free speech. I think I have an ethical responsibility not to say every dickish thing that goes through my head. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/68 "2011-06-30T01:44:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You can’t ask for responsibility with rights. Missed the edit window. This should have said “with_out_ rights.” ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/69 "2011-06-30T01:45:27Z")
> [@ugly ripe tomato](#): > > **elfkin477** I phrased that part kind of clumsily. I’m a woman myself and no way in hell did I mean to imply that all women sleep around with no thought of the consequences. I figured as much 🙂 > [@Troppus](#): > > People are often on their best behavior and present the most positive aspects of their personality in the initial stages of a relationship. People can also enter a relationship with the best intentions until some stressor reveals personality flaws or a clash of ideals. No one has a crystal ball, a built-in polygraph, or insists on a personality test before falling for another. > > All the examples of incongruencies in the media should serve as evidence that anyone can be fooled by another. Elizabeth Edwards. Maria Schriver. Hillary Clinton. Paula Rader. Laci Peterson. Someone created [this handy Wiki list](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_evangelist_scandals)of scandals involving evangelists, most of which culminated in an apology to a spouse as well as the public. Are all these victims of a spouse’s shady behavior worthy of blame, too? Is it really fair to spank the OP with “You shoulda thought of that before you…” when we have no knowledge of the details of the relationship prior to the miscarriage? I actually thought that the assumption that she barely knew the guy was the nicer of the two possible assumptions. Everyone makes mistakes but in a lot of people’s minds being horny and not knowing someone throughly enough before sleeping with them is a lot less stupid than allowing yourself to be snowed by someone who is pretending to be a good person. Momentary lapse in judgment vs being a terrible judge of character. It’s not as though the victims of those scandals don’t have their detractors saying they ought to have known better before marrying the jerks. Is it possible to always know? Of course not, but that doesn’t still wagging tongues. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/70 "2011-06-30T01:45:55Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > But the OP wasn’t asking for support or even agreement: she was asking about the law. It was a fairly ignorant question, but we get those a lot in GQ. > > We cross posted, but my point remains the same: even if this is your stance, would your priority be helping her, or making sure she knew how badly she fucked up? I don’t think it has to be one or the other, and this appeared to be a person who was not really accepting personal responsibility. Anyway, I said it wasn’t polite, but it also wasn’t wrong. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/71 "2011-06-30T01:46:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You disagree with what, exactly? You believe the miscarriage was his fault? If not, then why should he have to pay for it? I think he has an ethical, if not legal, level of responsibility, and while he shouldn’t legally have to pay for it, paying for half would be the right thing to do. > [@](#): > > Because she was trying to get somebody else to pay for something that wasn’t his fault. No, she was asking if she had any legal claim on him. It’s a yes/no question. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/72 "2011-06-30T01:46:48Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > That’s why I said “consequences of sex”, not “baby”. I tend to feel a partner would also have an ethical responsibility (if not a legal one) if they gave their partner an STD or some other sort of consequence resulted. So is that just sex? Do I have an ethical responsibility to my coworkers if I pass my cold to them? I think decent human beings have a ethical responsibility to commiserate - especially when they have contributed to the pain, but frankly when a guy takes off when you say “I’m pregnant” I think you can cross his name off the decent human being list. Her situation is sad and she didn’t need Omar picking on her, though. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/73 "2011-06-30T01:48:32Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Yes you can? I think I have a right to free speech. I think I have an ethical responsibility not to say every dickish thing that goes through my head. You have no legal responsibility, though, and ethics are subjective. I don’t see how this guy is even ethically responsible for a miscarriage. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/74 "2011-06-30T01:51:23Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > So is that just sex? Do I have an ethical responsibility to my coworkers if I pass my cold to them? > > I think decent human beings have a ethical responsibility to commiserate - especially when they have contributed to the pain, but frankly when a guy takes off when you say “I’m pregnant” I think you can cross his name off the decent human being list. As do I, but I didn’t see that as her real complaint, which was that he wouldn’t help her pay for the miscarriage. I see that as a separate issue from his taking off on her (which showed an intent, at least, to try to skip on parental responsibilities). ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/75 "2011-06-30T01:52:16Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > So is that just sex? Do I have an ethical responsibility to my coworkers if I pass my cold to them? Yeah, kinda. I mean, I apologize when I realize I’ve taken a cold to work. If I put someone in the emergency room as a fairly predictable consequence of my actions, or even just actions that benefited me, I’d sure as hell feel responsible even if fault was shared. > [@](#): > > I think decent human beings have a ethical responsibility to commiserate - especially when they have contributed to the pain, but frankly when a guy takes off when you say “I’m pregnant” I think you can cross his name off the decent human being list. > > Her situation is sad and she didn’t need Omar picking on her, though. Yes, people who act like douches are douches. But Omar (and Dio) seem to be arguing that this guy is being reasonable and that the OP is a gold digging bitch for thinking the guy might possibly have any sort of legal or ethical responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/76 "2011-06-30T01:52:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Actually “mistake” was the wrong word. She’s trying to make him responsible for a medical misfortune he had nothing to do with. He has zero responsibility for her miscarriage. Her body, her bill. Hard to have a miscarriage without being pregnant…and she didn’t do that alone. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/77 "2011-06-30T01:54:36Z")
He’s not responsible for the miscarriage - he IS 50% responsible for the _conception_ however. Once that happens either childbirth or miscarriage is inevitable. SHE wasn’t responsible for the miscarriage, either. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/78 "2011-06-30T01:57:31Z")
That doesn’t mean it’s not her problem, and it’s sure as hell ain’t HIS problem. His only financial responsibility would be to a born baby. He has none at all to her. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/79 "2011-06-30T01:59:11Z")
> [@SnakesCatLady](#): > > Hard to have a miscarriage without being pregnant…and she didn’t do that alone. Her pregnancy is her problem. Only the results would be his. I think some people might want to be careful about the can of worms they’d be opening by trying to hold men legally responsible for fetuses. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/80 "2011-06-30T02:01:18Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I think he has an ethical, if not legal, level of responsibility, and while he shouldn’t legally have to pay for it, paying for half would be the right thing to do. I don’t see how he has any ethical responsibility the miscarriage _per se_. For everything else, yes, but not for the miscarriage. > [@](#): > > No, she was asking if she had any legal claim on him. It’s a yes/no question. She also said this: > [@Miscarriage Father's Responsibilities to Help Pay Bill (No Insurance)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miscarriage-fathers-responsibilities-to-help-pay-bill-no-insurance/587079/10): > > It is quite an unfair situation, I am a bit bitter I suppose, how a man can just walk away free and clear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306.md?page=5)