# Is Omar being a douche? More than just a Little. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306 "2011-06-29T20:17:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/81 "2011-06-30T02:04:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Her pregnancy is her problem. Only the results would be his. > > I think some people might want to be careful about the can of worms they’d be opening by trying to hold men legally responsible for fetuses. Not one person has claimed that they should be. Several people have claimed that the man has an ethical responsibility. But what this thread is really about is whether or not it’s douche-like to bring up this general ethical debate in a General Questions thread about whether or not a legal responsibility currently exists when the person asking the rather simple legal question is currently clearly suffering a great deal of pain and has not really asked anyone what they think of the wider issue. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/82 "2011-06-30T02:07:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t see how he has any ethical responsibility the miscarriage _per se_. For everything else, yes, but not for the miscarriage. I guess I see it like if I left a bag of weed in my friend’s car and they got busted. Legally, it’d be on them, but ethically I’d feel like I should help out with the consequences. > [@](#): > > She also said this: She said she’s bitter that he has no responsibility, but never that she didn’t share in it: she started off saying she wanted to know if he was obligated to _help_, not pay for everything. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/83 "2011-06-30T02:07:21Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Not one person has claimed that they should be. > > Several people have claimed that the man has an ethical responsibility. It’s the same thing. One implies the other. > [@](#): > > But what this thread is really about is whether or not it’s douche-like to bring up this general ethical debate in a General Questions thread about whether or not a legal responsibility currently exists when the person asking the rather simple legal question is currently clearly suffering a great deal of pain and has not really asked anyone what they think of the wider issue. She also did express a moral opinion about it, which invited a response. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/84 "2011-06-30T02:10:28Z")
It was still a dick thing to say. End of story. There’s always time to try make a coaching moment out of tragedy and/or rub salt in a wound BUT that time isn’t until later. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/85 "2011-06-30T02:12:51Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I guess I see it like if I left a bag of weed in my friend’s car and they got busted. Legally, it’d be on them, but ethically I’d feel like I should help out with the consequences. I don’t see how this is analogous at all. A miscarriage is an act of God. Bad luck, but no one has any ethical responsibility for it. > [@](#): > > She said she’s bitter that he has no responsibility, but never that she didn’t share in it: she started off saying she wanted to know if he was obligated to _help_, not pay for everything. She said she thought he should share financial responsibility for something that wasn’t his fault. If a baby had been born, then yes he would have been both financially and ethically responsible, but not until there is a baby. Before there is a baby, then she is making a choice, all by herself, to remain pregnant. That choice comes with the risk (including the financial risk) of miscarriage. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/86 "2011-06-30T02:14:21Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > It was still a dick thing to say. End of story. A little bit, yes, but not wrong. He probably shouldn’t have said it in GQ. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/87 "2011-06-30T02:17:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s the same thing. One implies the other. It may for you. It doesn’t for a lot of people who make a distinction between ethical and legal obligations. You may not agree that distinction makes sense, but don’t deny that we make it. > [@](#): > > She also did express a moral opinion about it, which invited a response. She made an off-the-cuff comment in what is clearly a time of great personal suffering. I really don’t see how that makes it ok to justify rubbing her nose in it like a bad puppy. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/88 "2011-06-30T02:41:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > A little bit, yes, but not wrong. He probably shouldn’t have said it in GQ. True enough. Y’know, it’s not that likely that it will come up, but if I ever get Pitted, I think I’m just gonna try to find a way to turn it into another episode of _ **Diogenes the Cynic** v. The World_… ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/89 "2011-06-30T02:46:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I believe in education and common sense, not virginity. Education does not guarantee that people will not take a chance in the heat of the moment. . ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/90 "2011-06-30T02:49:35Z")
Even after the pregnancy, she still made the autonomous decision to keep it, which makes the rest of the pregnancy (along with the attendant risks) her own choice, and not his. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/91 "2011-06-30T02:51:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Before there is a baby, then she is making a choice, all by herself, to remain pregnant. That choice comes with the risk (including the financial risk) of miscarriage. Just when I thought you couldn’t _possibly_ sink any lower than you already have. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/92 "2011-06-30T02:55:38Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Just when I thought you couldn’t _possibly_ sink any lower than you already have. Do you even understand what you’re indignant about? What part of what I said do you think is unfair? ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/93 "2011-06-30T03:00:55Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Just when I thought you couldn’t _possibly_ sink any lower than you already have. Why? If the father bailed at the beginning, the decision to have a child was solely hers. That doesn’t seem too controversial to me. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/94 "2011-06-30T03:07:06Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Just when I thought you couldn’t _possibly_ sink any lower than you already have. The unsolicited moral spanking in the original fact-finding thread was douche-y and out of line. But **Dio** is correct: women either have autonomous legal, ethical, moral, and biological control of their bodies and functions, or they don’t. As he said, we can’t have it both ways. It is a shame that dude won’t man up and help her with the medical bills which resulted from a pregnancy he was 50% responsible for creating. But if he legally has no rights to a fetus, he legally has no responsibility for same. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/95 "2011-06-30T03:24:57Z")
And here I was the past few days honestly thinking to myself “hmmmm Dio hasn’t been a fucking ubber threadshitting/derailing/insensitive/tasteless douche for the last month or two…I guess the new improved Dio HAS arrived” Yeah, fucking right. That will learn me to think like that. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/96 "2011-06-30T03:36:43Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I haven’t read the linked thread, but A true classic. I usually stop reading when a post that starts like this. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/97 "2011-06-30T04:16:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Do you even understand what you’re indignant about? What part of what I said do you think is unfair? I didn’t think what you said was “unfair”. I thought what you said was downright sick. Basically you were saying, “well, by choosing to stay pregnant, you accepted the risk of a miscarriage. Too bad.” You may not have MEANT it that way, but that’s how it came off – as if you were dismissing what happened to her, and that it’s no big deal. (Tell me, are you the type who tells a woman, “oh well, you can always have another one?”) ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/98 "2011-06-30T04:55:34Z")
Forget it, Jake. It’s Diotown. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/99 "2011-06-30T05:06:35Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I didn’t think what you said was “unfair”. I thought what you said was downright sick. Basically you were saying, “well, by choosing to stay pregnant, you accepted the risk of a miscarriage. Too bad.” That is exactly what I meant. What part of that do you disagree with? ---
**Author:** ![Pixiesnix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Pixiesnix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixiesnix)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/100 "2011-06-30T05:26:31Z")
Apropos of nothing, there are people posting in this thread that I haven’t seen post in years: **JohnBckWLD** , **Beadalin** , **athelas** , **SnakesCatLady** , and **MandaJO**. I had to check the dates to see if the thread was a zombie. Maybe I’ve been reading the wrong threads. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306.md?page=6)