# Is Omar being a douche? More than just a Little. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 29, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306 "2011-06-29T20:17:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/121 "2011-06-30T17:51:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > A man is obligated to provide for his offspring, but he is not obligated to recompense the incidental medical bills of every woman he fucks. Agreed, but we’re not talking about an _incidental_ bill- and if we are, then **Omar Little** ’s whine about how the OP won’t take responsibility for her actions makes even less sense. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/122 "2011-06-30T18:05:41Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I feel sorry for the original OP in this matter. It’s bad enough that the first thread went sideways, but to drag her back into the limelight (albeit indirectly) through this thread is rather unnecessary. THat’s not intended as an opinion on the worthiness of the pitting, merely the unfortunate collateral result of this thread. > > When someone is down, you offer them your hand, you don’t kick them in the nuts and call it their fault. I debated about making this thread for hours for that reason, but her thread was just turning into a snarkfest. Her thread seems to be getting back on track and I hope she hasn’t given up on it. I kind of thought this would just sink like a rock like every other thread I try to start but if the ethical debate can be confined to here instead of there I’m happy. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/123 "2011-06-30T18:16:34Z")
> [@ugly ripe tomato](#): > > I debated about making this thread for hours for that reason, but her thread was just turning into a snarkfest. Her thread seems to be getting back on track and I hope she hasn’t given up on it. > > I kind of thought this would just sink like a rock like every other thread I try to start but if the ethical debate can be confined to here instead of there I’m happy. I disagree. Once someone makes a post on a public message board, he or she should realize their post could wind up anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/124 "2011-06-30T19:34:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It would be the decent thing to do, yes, but I’m uncomfortable saying he’s ethically obligated. If he cared about the woman, he would do it, but you can’t obligate men to care about the women they sleep with. Just wondering if you’d feel the same way if instead of a pregnancy, we were talking about HIV. If the OP discovered she’d acquired HIV from this guy and she needed money for retrovirals, would you still feel uncomfortable saying he’s ethically obligated to help her out? Because I wouldn’t, not at all. Although both rolled the dice by having risky (or even not so risky) sex and thus both share some responsibility for what transpired, none of that really matters in terms of ethics and morality. My personal philosophy is simple: If you do something that causes harm to someone else–either intentionally or unintentionally–and you’re in the position to fix or mollify that harm, then you should do so. Running away because you can’t be arsed to care (since when is that a requirement for anything?) is unethical. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/125 "2011-06-30T20:30:04Z")
It’s against the law in many jurisdictions to have sex without notifying your partner that you have HIV. In theory, that could lead a person to sue the other person in civil court for the cost of their medical bills, pain & suffering, etc. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/126 "2011-06-30T21:33:35Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > It’s against the law in many jurisdictions to have sex without notifying your partner that you have HIV. My hypothetical doesn’t require an HIV+ person to know they have HIV. Even if they’re clueless about their status only until after they infect a sex partner, I still think it would be unethical for them to leave this partner in the lurch if this person couldn’t afford treatment. “It’s their body, therefore their problem” seems to be the whole rationale behind **Dio’s** postion. Although this might be the truth legally (which no one disputes), ethically it’s just not very compelling argument. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/127 "2011-06-30T23:15:16Z")
I still can’t see how a guy can be held in anyway ethically responsible for a miscarriage. You might as well blame him for an earthquake. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/128 "2011-06-30T23:17:53Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Just wondering if you’d feel the same way if instead of a pregnancy, we were talking about HIV. > > If the OP discovered she’d acquired HIV from this guy and she needed money for retrovirals, would you still feel uncomfortable saying he’s ethically obligated to help her out? Because I wouldn’t, not at all. Although both rolled the dice by having risky (or even not so risky) sex and thus both share some responsibility for what transpired, none of that really matters in terms of ethics and morality. > > My personal philosophy is simple: If you do something that causes harm to someone else–either intentionally or unintentionally–and you’re in the position to fix or mollify that harm, then you should do so. Running away because you can’t be arsed to care (since when is that a requirement for anything?) is unethical. I think it’s her own job to protect herself from STDs - her body, her risk, her responsibility (and same with guys), but I also don’t think this is analogous to holding a guy responsible for a miscarriage. A miscarriage is something he has no control over and no ability to prevent. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/129 "2011-06-30T23:21:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It would be the decent thing to do, yes, but I’m uncomfortable saying he’s ethically obligated. If he cared about the woman, he would do it, but you can’t obligate men to care about the women they sleep with. No, but you sure can obligate them to support any offspring arising from those “naps”. Dio, what I _really_ objected to was your assertion that a woman always has a _choice_ about continuing a pregnancy or not. She doesn’t. If she is too poor to cough up the bucks for an abortion _she has no choice_. Really, the society that is so generous to baby-makers should at least front the bills for someone having a miscarriage even if unwilling to cover abortions… but we both seem to agree the medical system in this country is messed up in some respects. We may have to agree to disagree, but I’m in the camp that the _ethical_ thing to do would be to render _some_ assistance (not even necessarily a full half, but _something)_ to help deal with this miscarriage which would not have occurred if they hadn’t had sex together. I also acknowledge he is in no way legally obligated to do any of that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/130 "2011-06-30T23:24:51Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > No, but you sure can obligate them to support any offspring arising from those “naps”. Offspring, yes, of course, but if there is a miscarriage then there is no offspring. > [@](#): > > Dio, what I _really_ objected to was your assertion that a woman always has a _choice_ about continuing a pregnancy or not. She doesn’t. Too damn bad for her then. If she is in a position where she can’t deal with the consequences of pregnancy (and it’s pretty easy to get a MAP), then she should be taking that risk. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/131 "2011-06-30T23:25:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think it’s her own job to protect herself from STDs - her body, her risk, her responsibility (and same with guys), but I also don’t think this is analogous to holding a guy responsible for a miscarriage. A miscarriage is something he has no control over and no ability to prevent. Doesn’t stress have an impact on the odds of miscarriage? If so, then doing something (or neglecting to do something) that increases the stress on a pregnant woman could be construed to contibute to a miscarriage. I’ll leave aside frank criminal cases like poisonings or, say, kicking a pregnant woman down a few flights of stairs in an attempt to get her to lose the baby. Yeah, back when I worked in social services we had a case like that - stupid male biped decided he didn’t want to be a daddy and kicked the woman involved down eight flights of stairs at a Cabrini-Green high rise. Class act. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/132 "2011-06-30T23:34:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > That is exactly what I meant. What part of that do you disagree with? So if someone has a wanted pregnancy, they’re not supposed to grieve over a miscarriage? THAT is what I’m getting at. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/133 "2011-06-30T23:37:53Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I still can’t see how a guy can be held in anyway ethically responsible for a miscarriage. You might as well blame him for an earthquake. Do you dispute that he helped make her pregnant? Because you can’t have a miscarriage without being pregnant. Likening this to an earthquake makes you look fantastically disingenuous. I mean, if the guy is completely guileless in this scenario, it’s a mystery to me why the OP should have even been scolded about sleeping with someone of poor character in the first place. If he’s done nothing wrong, which is what you’re saying now, then why support **Omar’s** finger wagging her for being careless? Based on your logic, no one was careless. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/134 "2011-06-30T23:40:26Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So if someone has a wanted pregnancy, they’re not supposed to grieve over a miscarriage? THAT is what I’m getting at. Who the fuck said anything about grieving? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/135 "2011-06-30T23:42:34Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Do you dispute that he helped make her pregnant? Because you can’t have a miscarriage without being pregnant. That’s the informed risk she took with her own body. All he’s risking is offspring. > [@](#): > > Likening this to an earthquake makes you look fantastically disingenuous. I mean, if the guy is completely guileless in this scenario, it’s a mystery to me why the OP should have even been scolded about sleeping with someone of poor character in the first place. If he’s done nothing wrong, which is what you’re saying now, then why support **Omar’s** finger wagging her for being careless? Based on your logic, no one was careless. Once there is a baby, I think he’s fully on the hook, and I despise men who skip on their parental responsibilities. He has no responsibility to the woman at all, though. She is responsible for her own body. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/136 "2011-07-01T00:01:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He has no responsibility to the woman at all, though. She is responsible for her own body. No one technically is responsible for any other adult. That doesn’t have jack to do with what is ethically and morally sound, though. ---
**Author:** ![papergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/aca169/32.png) [@papergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/papergirl)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/137 "2011-07-01T00:12:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Too damn bad for her then. If she is in a position where she can’t deal with the consequences of pregnancy (and it’s pretty easy to get a MAP), then she should be taking that risk. Too damn bad for her? Do you even hear yourself? I’ve got no argument with anyone–I know my opinion and have no need to prove it to anyone, but man…this is a profoundly ungenerous sentiment, regardless of your politicial or social views. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/138 "2011-07-01T01:13:48Z")
There are two issues at play here. **Omar Little** initially was responding to a comment within the post and while callous, was not particularly douchey. His continued protestations did then propel him into full douche mode. As to ethical obligations and the like, Bugger THAT. I’m with **Dio** on this one. Since biology is unfair on this issue, and we as a society are not willing to provide true legal equality, (or provide for the termination or results of pregnancy in this matter), his position is entirely correct. Medical events _happen_. It sucks, but she is in this one on her own. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/139 "2011-07-02T20:44:57Z")
Well, I’ll be fucking damned. It finally happened. And its well deserved IMO. Dio’s bullshit insensitive, unhelpful behavior in the miscarriage thread was beyond the pale. Not that he’s the only one. Though its probably not his behavior there that got him in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306/140 "2011-07-03T16:23:05Z")
Not that I wasn’t ready to reach through the intarwebs and steal his keyboard so that he’d have to quit typing once he got going in that thread, but there’s no point bashing him here while he’s suspended. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-omar-being-a-douche-more-than-just-a-little/587306.md?page=8)