# Is 'organic" food a scam?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [June 15, 2006, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816 "2006-06-15T16:17:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/41 "2006-06-16T20:59:33Z")
> [@Squink](#):
>
> No it isn’t. Capsicum is a plant genus of the Solanaceae family. The fruit of capsicum species usually contain capsaicin, which is obviously what **LHOD** meant to say. Capsaicin is more a deterrant of furry browsers than it is an insecticide, although it _is_ used against aphids and spider mites.
> Common plant derived insecticides include pyrethrins, nicotine, rotenones, caffeine, limonene, and eugenol.
Thanks for the clarification; that’s obviously what I meant. I’ve got no interest in joining the sort of debate **Blake** obviously prefers, but I’m happy to discuss organic agriculture with folks who behave civilly.
Organic agriculture is not well-defined as a scam; as Cecil says, it may act most effectively as a symbolic action to spur farmers to use fewer pesticides.
Daniel
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### Author:  [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/42 "2006-06-16T21:45:49Z")
> [@Szlater](#):
>
> The scam isn’t the added cost, but the purported benefits which are used to justify the added cost.
>
> The benefits of ‘organic’ food to health have never been shown. So anyone claiming that there are, is scamming you.
The purported benefits of organic farming have nothing to do with the nutrition of the food, it is that it doesn’t produce 100,000 gallon lagoons of manure that is useless for fertilization, doesn’t poison waterways, doesn’t treat animals as meat units that don’t feel pain or have natural needs,etc.
Cheap food isn’t cheap, you are paying for it in innumerable ways. Agriculture as it is practiced in most of the U.S.A. is completely unsustainable and is only maintained through government subsidies and price controls.
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### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/43 "2006-06-16T23:00:21Z")
> [@Philster](#):
>
> We couldn’t feed everyone ‘organically’. There isn’t enough nitrogen (fertilizer) naturally occurring that could feed the plants that feed people and which feed live stock.
>
> Kudos to chemicals, for without them, many of us would be living in famine.
One could argue that without chemicals, there wouldn’t be so many of us, which would be a good thing.
> [@](#):
>
> Organic = bad for the environement. Stealing my nitrogen without giving any back. Bastards!
Ann Coulter called, she wants her stupid post back.
---
### Author:  [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/44 "2006-06-17T00:31:32Z")
> [@Squink](#):
>
> No it isn’t. Capsicum is a plant genus of the Solanaceae family.
I am amazed that you are apparently ignorant of the fact that [capsicum is a fruit](http://home.vtown.com.au/~dbellamy/vegetables/caps1.html).
As for what LHoD _meant_ to say I really couldn’t speculate. I can only comment what he _did_ say, which is patently untrue. Capsicum is not an insecticde, nor is he able to name any naturalinsecticides which are “healthful”[sic].
> [@Brain Wreck](#):
>
> One could argue that without chemicals, there wouldn’t be so many of us, which would be a good thing.
I don’t doubt you could argue that, but it’s a silly argument.
What you are arguing is that by forcing people into subsistence farming in constant fear of famine, reducing the life expectancy and decreasing the standard of living that will be environmentally beneficial and somehow lead to people being more conservative with their production systems.
Of course all the evidence tells us that exactly the opposite is true. People with the low standards of living, high child mortality and unreliable food supply your proposal would accompany are forced to exploit their land to the limit of their ability.
Fewer people but far more farmland and far more degradation.
---
### Author:  [@xbuckeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xbuckeye)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/45 "2006-06-17T00:49:27Z")
Three things I was taught in the late 1990’s and early 2000’s by people who have actually studied such things scientifically in studies funded by agencies without a stake in the outcome:
1. By melting the glaciers, using the water to irrigate the deserts and tilling the rainforests (and razing cities, too) we can feed 1/2 to 2/3 of the world population with current organic farming yield, assuming vegetarian lifestyles for everyone (ie, no animals are fed crop foods). This is not environmentally friendly.
2. The only scientifically provable difference between organic and conventionally produce is that organic produce is many times more likely to contain potentially dangerous fecal pathogens.
3. Plants under attack from insect, fungal or bacterial infestations produce lots of chemicals, not all of them are identified, not every plant makes them in predictable amounts, and not all of them are safe.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/46 "2006-06-17T01:12:03Z")
> [@Blake](#):
>
> I am amazed that you are apparently ignorant of the fact that [capsicum is a fruit](http://home.vtown.com.au/~dbellamy/vegetables/caps1.html).
Only to the botanically challenged, dude.
Here, I’ll fight a little ignorance and help you [look it up](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&as_qdr=all&q=capsicum+site%3A.edu&btnG=Search).
If that’s too much a task for you, try reading Wiki on [Capsicum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsicum).
The fruit of Capsicum species is actually a berry. See, it says so right here in these [notes on fruit types for Integrative Biology 335](http://www.life.uiuc.edu/ib/335/Fruits.html):
> [@](#):
>
> FLESHY FRUIT TYPES
>
> ```
> * Berry: an indehiscent, fleshy fruit with few to many seeds (rarely one seed); gynoecia variable.
>
> tomatoes, bananas, grapes, blueberries, kiwis, peppers, eggplants, cranberries, avocados
>
> ```
Pepper plants themselves are often called Capsicums, because that’s their genus.
The fruits of capsicums are called berries, or more commonly peppers.
Next time, try to know of what you speak before saying anything.
---
### Author:  [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2006, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/47 "2006-06-17T01:23:01Z")
> [@August West](#):
>
> The purported benefits of organic farming have nothing to do with the nutrition of the food, it is that it doesn’t produce 100,000 gallon lagoons of manure that is useless for fertilization, doesn’t poison waterways, doesn’t treat animals as meat units that don’t feel pain or have natural needs,etc.
>
> Cheap food isn’t cheap, you are paying for it in innumerable ways. Agriculture as it is practiced in most of the U.S.A. is completely unsustainable and is only maintained through government subsidies and price controls.
As has been mentioned before in this thread, ‘organic’ farming is inefficient and a poor use of the limited resource called land. That’s not to say there isn’t a place for it, for those that can afford it, but it isn’t the solution to the problems facing mankind with regards to feeding a growing population. IMO encouraging third world farmers to farm ‘organically’ should be a crime, yet that is exactly what is happening at the moment.
Conventional farming is far from unsustainable, as technology improves agriculture will continue, this has been happening since man started cultivating crops instead of hunting and gathering. What will have to happen at some point is that agribusiness will have to find a way to cope with dwindling supplies of fossil fuels, whether that is through a combination of alternative energy and GM crops or something else entirely, I don’t know. But we’re unlikely to see a shift towards ‘organic’ farming as anything other than a niche market, infact it would be a disaster if that were to happen.
Ofcourse, I didn’t mention any of that in my post.
What I was talking about was the health claims, which are certainly made (ever watch Jamie Oliver’s ‘School Dinners’ or ‘Dr’ Gillian McKeith’s ‘You are what you eat’?). The health claims play off the back of the ‘natural=healthy & artificial=unhealthy’ meme which is so prevalent in our scientifically illiterate society.
With regards to your animal rights claim, it is perfectly possible to be an ethical meat farmer without resorting to ‘organic’ principles. I personally would prefer my meat to come from such places. My experience has been that organic meat is currently the prefered thing in my kitchen because it tends to come from smaller herds, and the farmers and butchers who tend to have less financial constraints (people are willing to pay a premium) do things like hang carcasses for longer (a properly aged steak is a beautiful thing) and use superior feedstock.
As for fruit and veg, I prefer to buy ‘Fair Trade’ wherever possible.
---
### Author:  [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2006, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/48 "2006-06-17T02:19:38Z")
Squink I have no idea what your point is here. Are you denying that there is fruit that is commonly referred to as a capsicum? I just posted one link that established that fact but if you remain ignorant then simply say so.
A straight answer please: are you challenging my statement that capsicum is a common name for fruit?
If you are I will gladly provide any number of references to fight your ignorance.
If you are not then can you tell us just exactly what your point is? I am well aware of what type of fruit a capsicum is. That does not make it any less a fruit you realise?
You seem to be arguing that because cherry is a berry it can not be a fruit. Bizarro stuff.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/49 "2006-06-17T02:58:14Z")
> [@Blake](#):
>
> You seem to be arguing that because cherry is a berry it can not be a fruit.
Of course, you mean prunus, the genus, rather than cherry, the name of the fruit; and by prunus, you may mean almond, which is _also_ of the genus prunus.
Perhaps some folk somewhere call the fruit of the pepper plant ‘capsicums’, but it’s sloppy bit of slang if they do.
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### Author:  [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2006, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/50 "2006-06-17T03:17:43Z")
Squink can we have a straight answer please: are you challenging my statement that capsicum is a common name for fruit?
If you are I will gladly provide any number of references to fight your ignorance.
If you are not then can you tell us just exactly what your point is? I am well aware of what type of fruit a capsicum is. That does not make it any less a fruit you realise?
You seem to be arguing that because cherry is a berry it can not be a fruit. Bizarro stuff.
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### Author:  [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/51 "2006-06-17T03:24:23Z")
> [@Squink](#):
>
> Perhaps some folk somewhere call the fruit of the pepper plant ‘capsicums’, but it’s sloppy bit of slang if they do.
Cite!
Since this is GQ you will of course be able to provide a reference for this claim. Won’t you? :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2006, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/52 "2006-06-17T03:38:34Z")
> [@Blake](#):
>
> Cite!
Nah, you’ve played your little game here long enough.
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### Author:  [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/53 "2006-06-17T03:42:17Z")
> [@Blake](#):
>
> Cite!
>
> Since this is GQ you will of course be able to provide a reference for this claim. Won’t you? :rolleyes:
> [@](#):
>
> The [name](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsicum#Synonyms_and_common_names) given to the fruits varies between English-speaking countries.
>
> In Australia and New Zealand, heatless species are called “capsicums” while hot ones are called “chilli/chillies” (two L’s). The term “bell peppers” is rarely used, usually in reference to C. annuum and other varieties which look like a “capsicum” or bell but are fairly hot. A common Australian mispronunciation is “capsicun.”
>
> In the United Kingdom, Ireland, and Canada, the heatless varieties are called “peppers” or “sweet peppers” (or “green peppers,” “red peppers,” etc) while the hot ones are “chilli/chillies” (two L’s) or “chilli peppers”.
>
> In the United States, the common heatless species is referred to as “bell peppers,” “sweet peppers,” “red/green/etc peppers,” or simply “peppers”, while the hot species are collectively called “chile/chiles,” “chili/chilies,” or “chili/chile peppers” (one L only). In many midwestern regions of the United States the Sweet Bell Pepper is commonly called a mango.
Google Fight Results,capsicums: 143,000 results
red/green/etc peppers: 57 results
bell peppers: 5,340,000 results
sweet peppers: 10,800,000 results
green peppers: 17,400,000 results
red peppers: 31,800,000 results
peppers: 46,800,000 resultsnot that Google Fight results tell us anything, but…
> [@](#):
>
> [BOTANY](http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceedings1996/V3-479.html#BOTANY)
> The genus Capsicum is a member of the Solanaceae family that includes tomato, potato, tobacco, and petunia. The genus Capsicum consists of approximately 22 wild species and five domesticated species (Bosland 1994): C. annuum, C. baccatum, C. chinense, C. frutescens, and C. pubescens. Capsicum is endemic to the western hemisphere and the pre-Columbian distribution extended from the southernmost border of the United States to the temperate zone of southern South America (Heiser 1976). It is a perennial small shrub in suitable climatic conditions, living for a decade or more in tropical South and Central America. Capsicum probably evolved from an ancestral form in the Bolivia/Peru area (Heiser 1976). Chile fruits are considered vegetables, but are berries botanically. Chile types usually are classified by fruit characteristics, i.e. pungency, color, shape, flavor, size, and their use (Smith et al. 1987; Bosland 1992). Despite their vast trait differences most chile cultivars commercially cultivated in the world belong to the species, C. annuum. The tabasco (C. frutescens) and habanero (C. chinense), are the best-known exceptions.
New world plant, why not use the new world name?
CMC fnord!
---
### Author:  [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2006, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/54 "2006-06-17T04:08:15Z")
> [@Squink](#):
>
> Of course, you mean prunus, the genus, rather than cherry, the name of the fruit; and by prunus, you may mean almond, which is _also_ of the genus prunus.
> Perhaps some folk somewhere call the fruit of the pepper plant ‘capsicums’, but it’s sloppy bit of slang if they do.
Goddamn it!
**Blake** is arguing in his typically unhelpful way, and he’s certainly not explaining this clearly, but bell peppers - and only heatless ones, as far as I’ve heard - are quite commonly referred to in Commonwealth countries as “capsicum”, just like they call zucchinis “courgettes” and eggplants “aubergines”. I know, I know, crazy shit, but that _is_ what the word “capsicum” is liable to bring up if you ask people who speak certain English dialects.
I think this started as a legitimate misunderstanding of **LHoD** ’s post (which I think is incorrect anyway.) Depending on where **Blake** is from, the word “capsicum” might not bring to mind any particular chemical at all, particularly since “capsicum” doesn’t contain capsaicin.
And **Blake** , rather than getting argumentative and demanding cites and generally losing your shit, you might have explained it honestly, since I doubt you’re unaware that such usage is not worldwide and you did not put yourself out to explain what the word “capsicum” represents to you.
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### Author:  [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2006, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/55 "2006-06-17T04:49:18Z")
I think the important point here is that I made sattement that was factualy correct.
In response Squink made a statemntthatwas factuallyincorrect andf ignorant. He then tried to cover that up by making up more ignorant nonsense about it being slag.
When asked to present evidence he then ran for cover.
I stand by everything I said. Everyhting I have posted in this thread is factually correct. The same can not be said for Squink’s lame attempts at arguing against it, which are nothing but ignorant nonsense.
Now that we have fought his ignorance on that point we might be able to work on the rest.
---
### Author:  [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2006, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/56 "2006-06-17T04:57:52Z")
> [@Blake](#):
>
> I think the important point here is that I made sattement that was factualy correct.
>
> In response Squink made a statemntthatwas factuallyincorrect andf ignorant. He then tried to cover that up by making up more ignorant nonsense about it being slag.
>
> When asked to present evidence he then ran for cover.
>
> I stand by everything I said. Everyhting I have posted in this thread is factually correct. The same can not be said for Squink’s lame attempts at arguing against it, which are nothing but ignorant nonsense.
>
> Now that we have fought his ignorance on that point we might be able to work on the rest.
He never argued that a “berry” is not a “fruit”, contrary to your suggestion, if you reread the thread. Obviously both he and **LHoD** don’t know what the word “capsicum” means in some parts of the world, but you could have explained a bit more patiently than you did. It’s not _always_ about right and wrong; sometimes it’s useful to forego an opportunity to be right and make the other person wrong by explaining the matter.
Getting in an argument over the name of a vegetable seems silly to me, and particularly so when you could have simply explained what “capsicum” means in your dialect.
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### Author:  [@iamamoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamamoocher)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2006, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/57 "2006-06-17T05:24:01Z")
First google hit:
[http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/med-aro/factsheets/CAPSICUM\_PEPPER.html](http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/med-aro/factsheets/CAPSICUM_PEPPER.html)
From that page: "The level of pungency of the Capsicum species depends upon the concentration of capsaicinoids, primarily of capsaicin, in the fruit. "
I think this whole thing started over the claim that capsaicin was a naturally occuring insecticide.
I don’t know if it is an insecticide, but I think it might be sprayed on grains to prevent rodents from eating them.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2006, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/58 "2006-06-17T19:21:19Z")
To clear it up: I incorrectly called capsaicin capsicum, but I do not believe that anyone misunderstood my post based on my malapropism, and I refuse to debate with folks who play gotcha games.
I did not call it an insecticide: I called it a “pest-deterrent,” which is accurate.
At any rate, that’s beside the point. My point is that I reject a particular argument:
> [@Bill Door](#):
>
> I say, so I should eat the naturally occurring untested pesticides rather than one thoroughly tested and approved by the FDA? He’s unconvinced that the natural pesticides could be toxic, even when I point out that nicotine and oxalic acids are known plant toxins. We agree to disagree on this, but it’s one of the issues I have with organic gardening.
I will accept this argument when the logical chain is connected: anti-organic-agriculture folks need to demonstrate that specific “natural pesticides” **occurring in commonly-eaten produce items** are harmful **at the levels in which they are normally eaten**. They need to demonstrate further than the use of artificial pesticides allows or results in a reduction of these natural pesticides to safe levels.
Otherwise, the claim is specious.
Note that I am not hereby declaring that artificial pesticides are harmful; while I suspect that they are, I don’t have the science at hand to argue that case. I am simply saying that suggestions that organic agriculture may be more harmful than conventional agriculture are, on this particular front, baseless.
Daniel
---
### Author:  [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/59 "2006-06-19T19:23:40Z")
> [@Blake](#):
>
> > [@InvisibleWombat](#):
> >
> > Go back and read the paragraph you were responding to and tell me what part of it doesn’t hold water. Everything I said in that paragraph is 100% verifiable fact.
>
> It doesn’t hold water.
>
> There isn’t enough nitrogen (fertilizer) naturally occurring that could feed the plants that feed people and which feed live stock.
Obviously, I need to say this again: **Go back and read the paragraph you were responding to.** After doing that, pull out _one single solitary fact_ that you can refute with cites. And while you’re at it, read about the nitrogen cycle.
> [@Blake](#):
>
> The additional fact that YOU can produce enough nitrogen via crop roation to make money for yourself doesn’t in any way invalidate that point.
That _was_ my point. I didn’t say squat about whether there’s enough naturally-occurring nitrogen for the entire world. I didn’t say “organic is good.” I said only that I can use crop rotation to grow alfalfa, beans, and corn _without adding any nitrogen fertilizer_ to my fields. That statement, despite your protestations, is 100% true.
> [@Blake](#):
>
> You do realise that if our yields of food were halved that woudl result in something like 80% of the world’s population starving to death, right?
I’d like to see a cite for that, **Blake**. First, show me how decreasing yields of crops by 50% would decrease our production of fish, free-range cattle, and other non-crop foods. Then, show me how decreasing those yields in developed countries would affect the production of crops in countries that currently use little or no artificial fertilizer. Then, when you’re done translating that crop yield into an overall percentage reduction in food, you can provide me a citation that demonstrates how 80% of the world starves to death. I know, I’m being facetious here. I don’t expect you to actually research an answer.
> [@Blake](#):
>
> No, your statement is funny. His point is perfectly sound.
Sheesh, **Blake**. Stop trying to read between the lines and put words in my mouth. Read exactly what **Philster** said, and exactly how I responded. I specifically said that the assertion, “Organic = bad for the environement” is silly. Plants have been growing without manmade fertilizer and pesticide since long before humans came on the scene, and the environment somehow survived it. If you translate his statement into “organic farming, when done poorly and to excess by millions of humans, can have detrimental effects on the specific land that’s being overstressed,” I would agree with him completely. _But that’s not what he said._
> [@Blake](#):
>
> Philster’s point is perfectly sound. If the world went organic tommorow it would be an environemtal catastrophe unparralleled in human history.
Please quote back to me the place where I proposed the entire world going organic. For that matter, please show me where I disagreed with the first paragraph of Philster’s post #17 (I disagreed with one specific sentence, which I still maintain is a silly overgeneralization). If you’re going to argue with me, at least have the courtesy to only argue things that I actually said.
> [@Blake](#):
>
> This entire thread is discussing organic farming, not organic chemistry. When Phislter said “Organic = bad for the environement” you knew damn well that he was talking about organic farming, not organic chemistry.
>
> For you to suddenly pretend that we were talking about organic chemistry or organic somehting-other-than-farming is disingenuous in the extreme.
Don’t accuse _me_ of being disingenuous, O great twister of words. First of all, I never said squat about organic chemistry. Not my field. Secondly, I never pretended we were talking about anything except what was actually stated in specific posts, which I’ve quoted to you (if you’d bother to read them). Third, this thread title says organic _food_, not organic _farming_. The cattle from my ranch carry an organic label just like the corn from someone else’s farm.
> [@Excalibre](#):
>
> When the plant produces the pesticides, you can’t wash them off.
I certainly don’t claim to be an expert in genetic engineering, but I thought you could make plants resistant to pests by means other than turning them into little pesticide factories. Can’t they be made less attractive to various pests, or better able to withstand the ravages of various natural plant diseases, molds, and so forth?
> [@Excalibre](#):
>
> I’m not an expert on this stuff, so I wouldn’t claim to know the answers. But I’m skeptical that organic agriculture is necessarily that much better for humans _or_ the environment. It would take real answers to some of these questions to convince me.
I sit on squarely on the fence as to whether organic farming is a good or bad thing. I personally believe that organic beef tastes better, and I can attest that it’s been very easy for me to produce. I have few enough cows that I can grow everything I need to feed them on my own property. It’s also been profitable, because I don’t spend any more money doing it. My operation, however, is a very small one, and I don’t depend on it for a living. I know organic doesn’t scale well.
I just can’t buy into the rabid “non-organic is poison” argument, nor into the equally rabid “organic is stupid/harmful/whatever” argument. Clearly, organic farming and ranching has both advantages and disadvantages, and I generally ignore both sets of extremists.
---
### Author:  [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-organic-food-a-scam/360816/60 "2006-06-19T19:33:41Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#):
>
> I certainly don’t claim to be an expert in genetic engineering, but I thought you could make plants resistant to pests by means other than turning them into little pesticide factories. Can’t they be made less attractive to various pests, or better able to withstand the ravages of various natural plant diseases, molds, and so forth?
I’m not sure. I _do_ know that that is one strategy used in genetic engineering today. As I already mentioned, plants produce large amounts of toxic compounds all by themselves; even purely selective breeding to yield more pest resistant crops is liable to increase the amounts of those chemicals, and in most cases, _we simply don’t know_ what their long-term effects are, or whether there is a certain amount that is entirely safe to consume - and what that amount is.
I’m with you; I’m sitting on the fence on the issue because it’s not something I know enough about to really opine either way - and what I _do_ know is often contradictory.
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