# Is O'Rourke deliberately sabotaging the Dems? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 11, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637 "2019-10-11T16:33:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/21 "2019-10-11T20:40:31Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > While tax exemptions for religious institutions has been upheld, I don’t think anything in the 1st amendment compels tax exempt status. The Congress could pass laws to tax churches like any other organization and not run afoul of the 1st amendment. It’s not been the practice since the country’s founding, but given that tax exempt status can be revoked based on criteria, it stands to reason that this is an available option. The First doesn’t specifically require tax exemption for churches, true, but it does forbid discriminating against religion. So this - > [@](#): > > I’d prefer the entire structure of not for profit entities be eliminated. is theoretically possible. You could not eliminate tax-exemption from churches but not other non-profits. But Beto suggesting removing tax exemption from all charities would piss off everybody, not just religious people. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Really!?! Calling on religion to demand the inhumane treatment of others? It is treason to think ethically about giving health care to other human beings? No, it’s un-Constitutional to interfere with the free practice of religion and free speech by imposing a litmus test on churches. > [@Northeast Refugee](#): > > While chances are small, one of these traitors might become our next President. Given Mr. O’Rourke’s current position in the polls, and his unfortunate habit of warning us of his anti-Constitutional views, I think his chances are not so much “small” as “not a snowball’s chance in hell”. Maybe somebody will pick him as VP. But I doubt that. He almost didn’t lose in Texas. He almost didn’t embarrass himself in the Democratic race for the nom. I suspect he has reached the pinnacle. At 3%. Among Democrats. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/22 "2019-10-11T20:48:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, it’s un-Constitutional to interfere with the free practice of religion and free speech by imposing a litmus test on churches. We will have to disregard this reply of yours because that is not why I replied to the inhumane point that **Northeast Refugee** made. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/23 "2019-10-11T21:07:09Z")
Who gives a fuck what republicans think? THey are going to say this no matter what. Also they aren’t going to vote for O’Rourke anyway. It isn’t like a bunch of angry white people from small towns in love with their guns were ever going to vote democrat anyway. Also right wingers are not the average voter. The average voter believes in reasonable gun control. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/24 "2019-10-11T21:15:52Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Who gives a fuck what republicans think? THey are going to say this no matter what. > > Also they aren’t going to vote for O’Rourke anyway. It isn’t like a bunch of angry white people from small towns in love with their guns were ever going to vote democrat anyway. > > Also right wingers are not the average voter. The average voter believes in reasonable gun control. It’s not about core Republican voters. O’Rourke’s stance will alienate moderates and independents, and you should care about what they think. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/25 "2019-10-11T21:22:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s not about core Republican voters. O’Rourke’s stance will alienate moderates and independents, and you should care about what they think. When republicans raised taxes on churches you didn’t hear conservatives saying these things. Which again brings up the point, why is it always the democrats who have to be moderate and reach across the aisle? And why do people always assume independents and moderates will recoil from anything remotely controversial if the democrats do it, but they’re fine if republicans do the same thing? [https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/26/republican-tax-law-churches-employees-670362](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/26/republican-tax-law-churches-employees-670362) > **[The GOP Raised Taxes on Churches to Fund Its Giveaway to the Rich](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/06/the-gop-raised-taxes-on-churches-to-fund-cuts-for-the-rich.html)** > > Religious institutions just discovered that Trump’s tax “cuts” actually imposed a complicated new tax on them. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/26 "2019-10-11T22:21:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > . So this -is theoretically possible. You could not eliminate tax-exemption from churches but not other non-profits. No, I’m sure you could. You just make the litmus test be the percentage of your activities/spending that are actually charitable work, like every organization that isn’t a church. If 80% of your business is giving speeches on the weekend, not tax exempt. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/27 "2019-10-11T23:18:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > O’Rourke’s stance will alienate moderates and independents No it won’t. Nobody cares about O’Rourke. Fox News and Breitbart might engage in some recreational outrage and gin up some apoplexy among their fans, no doubt. But moderates and independents don’t give any more shits about Fox News and Breitbart than they do about O’Rourke. Nice try, though. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/28 "2019-10-11T23:26:04Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’d prefer the entire structure of not for profit entities be eliminated. What do you have against my credit union? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/29 "2019-10-11T23:29:21Z")
People who vote solely on having their supposed right to own guns aren’t going to vote Democratic in a million years. Neither are evangelicals. It doesn’t matter what Beto says or does. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/30 "2019-10-11T23:30:38Z")
Due to the current occupant of the White House, the scandal _du jour_ just gets way less traction now than it used to. Few will remember this three weeks from now. Hell, most people won’t hear about it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/31 "2019-10-11T23:32:12Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > While the word “traitor” has been on everyone’s mind lately given Trump’s actions, it’s good to remember it is not synonymous with “person with policies I don’t support.” Don’t worry. I’m sure there will be a number of conservatives who will post in this thread to explain the legal definition of treason and how Northeast Refugee used the word incorrectly. That’s been a major cause with conservatives lately. So any second now… ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/32 "2019-10-12T01:14:17Z")
Well, that’s it. Some 3rd string Democratic presidential candidate said something kinda dumb and ill-thought. I’m voting for Trump! ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/33 "2019-10-12T01:15:17Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Few will remember this three weeks from now. Hell, most people won’t hear about it in the first place. That’s true for everything connected with the Beto 2020 campaign, including Beto. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/34 "2019-10-12T01:18:15Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > That’s true for everything connected with the Beto 2020 campaign, including Beto. I am not even lying, when I saw the thread title, I was wondering what PJ was up to, and then I thought, maybe there’s some other O’Rourke in politics I don’t know about? I had to click through the link before I remembered Beto was in the race. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/35 "2019-10-12T01:23:08Z")
I figured he meant Beto, but I still haven’t heard about this ‘sabotage’ anywhere besides this thread. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/36 "2019-10-12T01:24:21Z")
In all the discussion about “free” health care it does need to be restated that Medicare (and, presumably, Medicare for all) does have a _premium_. As any recipient of it can attest. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/37 "2019-10-12T01:40:21Z")
Beto is a piker. If you really want to sabotage your own party, try committing multiple felonies like the guy temporarily occupying the White House. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/38 "2019-10-12T02:44:03Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s not about core Republican voters. O’Rourke’s stance will alienate moderates and independents, and you should care about what they think. Your \*\*\*concern \*\*\*is duly noted. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/39 "2019-10-12T04:19:12Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Your \*\*\*concern \*\*\*is duly noted. Me? I’m not feeling “concern”, and nothing I’ve written in this thread was intended to suggest that I do. Frankly, I’m delighted that asshat is running. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637/40 "2019-10-12T04:57:58Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > But are you _concerned_? > [@China\_Guy](#): > > Your \*\*\*concern \*\*\*is duly noted. This is neither cute nor clever. Do not accuse other posters of trolling or being a troll in this forum. [/moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-orourke-deliberately-sabotaging-the-dems/841637.md?page=3)