# Is Oscar a Monster **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 3, 2001, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132 "2001-10-03T04:55:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/1 "2001-10-03T04:55:21Z")
I say Oscar on Sesame Street is a GROUCH and NOT a monster. Is he? There seem to be four species. Monsters Grouches Humanlike Things (the count, praire dawn) Legged Things (Big Bird, Snuffelupagus (sp?) ) ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/2 "2001-10-03T05:09:04Z")
I watched a lot of Sesame Street as a kid, and watch even more as an adult (they run older episodes on Noggin. They’re hillarious!;)) I have never seen Oscar refered to as a monster, by anyone, including himself. He has always been refered to as a grouch. Now, if a “grouch” is a specific breed of monster, that I don’t know. But I’ve never seen anything that would suggest he’s a monster. He’s a grouch. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/3 "2001-10-03T11:57:37Z")
I, having a two year old, can speak authoritatively on this subject - Oscar is a monster. He is a grouchy monster, but a monster none the less. Take a look at Cookie Monster, you’ll notice the shape and shaggy hair. Take a look at Elmo (“everybody’s favorite three year old monster” to quote an advertisement from CTW). Roughly the same shape and hair. Hey, it sure beat watching Caillou. That kid grates my nerves. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/4 "2001-10-03T15:26:20Z")
Nope, grouch. It’s a species all its own. Monsters include Grover, Cookie Monster, Telly, Elmo, and Harry Monster. Bert, Ernie and The Count are people. Big Bird is just a big bird. And Snuffy is a snuffleupagus. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/5 "2001-10-03T17:29:00Z")
I say Oscar is a Grouch. Although, it is possible that monsters such as Elmo and Harry share a common ancestor with Grouches, Grouched seem to have diverged into their own family a few thousand years ago. This can best be evidenced when Elmo, a monster, visited Grouchland and was recognized as an outsider. Grouches tend to have more pronounced eyebrows, useful in scowling, and their coloring has more yellow/orange/brown/green than your standard monster (who are usually blue, red, or purple). The Honkers are another monster offshoot, they come in a variety of colors. As for the aliens that say “yup yup yup,” whether they are a spacefaring monster race or the origin of monsters on earth, or just look like Terran monsters, remains to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![Sue\_Duhnym](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@Sue\_Duhnym](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sue_Duhnym)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/6 "2001-10-03T18:10:16Z")
Oscar is a Grouch, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/7 "2001-10-03T18:34:00Z")
Oscar is, in fact, a monster. Taxonomically speaking, Monsters are a genus; Grouches are a species in that genus. Oscar belongs to: Kingdom: Animalia (animals) Phylum: Chordata (animals with spines) Class: Animatia (animals on children’s TV shows or movies) Order: Muppetia (Muppets) Family: Handupbuttia (Muppets with guy’s hands inside, as opposed to muppets with a whole person inside them like Big Bird) Genus: Monsterus Species: Grouchus Urbanus Grover, Elmo, Cookie Monster, The Two-Headed Monster, and Oscar are all of the genus Monsterus, but are different species (respectively: Cuteus Furrius, Irritatus Odonnellus, Consumus Biscuitus, Bicranius Phonicus, and Grouchus Urbanus.) Also a Monstrus is Muppet Show alumni Gonzo, who is a Proboscis Greatus. Oscar doesn’t admit that he’s a monster because he’s just a grouch. Anyway, it probably wouldn’t occur to him to refer to himself as a monster; he’s the smarter monster on Sesame Street, and to him I’m sure it’s just an obvious fact, just as you would not go around saying “I’m Bill the Human.” (Especially if your name isn’t Bill.) Bert, Ernie, Prairie Dawn, The Count, et. al, as well as Muppet Show types like Prof. Honeydew, Beaker, Statler and Waldorf and most of Dr. Teeth And The Electric Mayhem, are among the genus Homo Muppetus, also part of the family Handupbuttia. The other major genus in the Handupbuttia family is Anthroanimalia, animals that act like people; this includes Kermit, Miss Piggy, Sam The Eagle, Fozzie Bear, etc. The yup-yup-yup monsters (BRRRRRR-INGGGG!) are aliens on a completely different evolutionary tree. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/8 "2001-10-03T18:55:59Z")
Yes, but **Muppets from Space** revealed tha Gonzo was, in fact, an alien, so it seems that _Proboscis greatus_ is closer to the “yup yup yup” aliens than previously thought by scientists. More funding is needed to study these biologically fascinating specimens! ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/9 "2001-10-04T01:09:29Z")
Oscar is a grouch, not a monster. Grouches are different from monsters. One major difference is that monsters have noses while grouches do not. The “common ancestor” theory for monsters and grouches is intriguing. Perhaps monsters without noses eventually evolved into grouches when they started inhabiting environments (like trash cans) that nosed monsters could not inhabit (P-U!) and interbreeding to preserve the non-nosed trait. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/10 "2001-10-04T15:37:59Z")
Oscar is a Grouch. Not to be confused with a Monster. Monsters include, but are not limited to Elmo, Telly, Grover. Grouches are a group of their own, and they have their own Grouchland…Oscar is one, as is Grizzly… ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/11 "2001-10-04T16:17:36Z")
“…monsters have noses.” The Cookie MONSTER does not have a nose, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/12 "2001-10-04T18:26:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by plnnr \* > \*\*"…monsters have noses." > > The Cookie MONSTER does not have a nose, IIRC. \*\* Throwback? Brutish accident? Perhaps Cookie has a removable nose like Bert’s, but he just chooses not to wear his because it gets in the way (or he’s afraid he’ll swallow it!) ---
**Author:** ![Bottle\_of\_Smoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Bottle\_of\_Smoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bottle_of_Smoke)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/13 "2001-10-04T18:57:48Z")
I agree with those who say Oscar is a Grouch, not a Monster. And those of you advocating an evolutionary explanation are just plain wrong. You must consult the sacred texts. Only then will you find the Truth. The collected hymns and songs of _Monster Melodies_, which I happen to have committed to memory, quite clearly makes no mention of Oscar. If Oscar were truly a monster, his vanguard peformance of _I love Trash_ would no doubt have been included in the canon. Since it is not, we can only conclude that the canon of Monsters makes no allowance for Grouches, and thus they are not related. And besides…can you answer this question, you smarty-pantses: If Grouches eveolved from monsters, how come we still have Monsters? Huh? Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Schadenfreude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@Schadenfreude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schadenfreude)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/14 "2001-10-04T21:13:01Z")
From the monster’s (Elmo’s) mouth: > [@](#): > > “Elmo was created as one of an ensemble of monsters on ‘Sesame Street,’” explains Kevin Clash, the voice behind the little red monster. “We had a blue, a purple, a green-he was built because we needed a red monster. One of the writers liked the way he looked and decided to write for him.” ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/15 "2001-10-04T21:21:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bottle of Smoke \* > \*\* > And besides…can you answer this question, you smarty-pantses: If Grouches eveolved from monsters, how come we still have Monsters? Huh? Huh? \*\* [sub]I almost wonder if this should go into Great Debates…[/sub] Grouches did not evolve from monsters. Instead, they had a common ancestor (which we may call the _gronster_.) Somewhere along the way, there was some sort of genetic mutation that caused some gronsters to be born without noses. These gronsters were better able to survive in smelly places that other gronsters could not inhabit. Thus, they filled a previously unfilled ecological niche. The noseless gronsters interbreeded and thus preserved the noseless trait. Natural selection favored the dingy green, orange, and other earth-tone fur colors that were better able to blend into dumps and trash heaps. Now, the nosed gronsters that remained continued to evolve on their own. Natural selection in their cases favored the brighter fur colors (perhaps they were favored in mate selection.) “Cuteness” was also favored to a certain extent. These gronsters became the monsters. Occasionally, a noseless monster is born (e.g. Cookie), but they generally don’t live in trash cans because grouches already live there. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/16 "2001-10-04T21:30:36Z")
**RickJay** is dead on. Saying “grouches evolved from monsters” is like saying “sparrows evolved from birds.” Nor is correct to say both evolved from a common ancestor, just as you wouldn’t say birds and sparrows evolved from a common ancestor. “Monster” is not a species, it’s that simple. It’s a genus. Grouches are _a kind of_ monster. ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/17 "2001-10-04T21:36:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Schadenfreude \* > \*\*From the monster’s (Elmo’s) mouth: > > > [@](#): > > > > “Elmo was created as one of an ensemble of monsters on ‘Sesame Street,’” explains Kevin Clash, the voice behind the little red monster. “We had a blue, a purple, a green-he was built because we needed a red monster. One of the writers liked the way he looked and decided to write for him.” > > \*\* What does this prove, other than the fact that Elmo was originally meant to be a generic background monster and that there was a generic background green monster already built at the time? There have been bright green monsters, I think, but none are dingy green like Oscar. As I see it, there is no evidence that Clash was talking about Oscar when he mentioned the “green monster”. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2001, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/18 "2001-10-04T22:29:09Z")
Oscar is a Grouch. He may be a monstrous grouch, but a grouch all the same. ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/19 "2001-10-05T05:27:26Z")
I have a dream that one day we will judge Muppets not by the color of their fur, the presence of absence of noses or their evolutionary background, but by the content of their character. – Martin Luther Muppet Jr. ---
**Author:** ![SeamusToo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@SeamusToo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeamusToo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2001, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132/20 "2001-10-05T17:20:00Z")
This question will never be satisfactorily resolved until Congress appropriates additional funds for Muppet stem cell research. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-oscar-a-monster/85132.md?page=2)