# Is Our Knowledge of our Mortality What Sets Us Apart From Other Animals? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652 "2010-06-02T15:50:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/1 "2010-06-02T15:50:54Z")
I don’t really know why I was thinking about this, but it occurred to me that my cat probablky has no idea it is going to die. In fact I am sure most all animals haven’t a clue that they are going to die. That just isn’t the way they think. But humans know. And I am wondering if this small bit of knowledge isn’t actually the genesis of the so-called “human spark”, because once you know you are going to die you act differently. You try to discover ways to extend your life. You invent tools and weapons in hoping to stave off death. Animals, of course, eat and reproduce and attempt in biological ways to stay alive. But they are acting on the “now” but humans seem forward looking knowing the ineveitable conclusion of life. Or am I just overthinking things? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/2 "2010-06-02T16:01:24Z")
What makes us unique is our conceptual consciousness. Of course without that, we’d have no knowledge of our mortality. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/3 "2010-06-02T16:43:25Z")
I am not so sure humans are the only ones aware of their mortality. Elephants and chimpanzees have certainly been seen to grieve for their dead. Koko the gorilla seemed to grasp that its cat died and showed grief. Certainly animals run from things that are likely to kill them. Programmed response or some realization they do not want to die? If programmed then how do you explain animals risking themselves in order to save their young or even a human in some cases? We cannot say what goes on in an animal’s mind and of course animals vary widely in their intellectual capacity. Nevertheless I think some of the brighter ones at least have some notion of death. Can an elephant seeing other elephants die of old age understand that is in store for it too? I have no idea. I just believe animals have a more complex and rich internal “dialog” (for lack of a better word) than we give them credit for. What knowledge that encompasses I could not say. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/4 "2010-06-02T16:44:23Z")
I thought it was opposable thumbs. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/5 "2010-06-02T16:57:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I thought it was opposable thumbs. Many animals have opposable thumbs. I would say that our knowledge of our mortality is a consequence of the thing that sets us apart-- not the thing itself. That “thing” is whatever cognitive functions we have that no other animals have, which we really don’t know how to quantify. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/6 "2010-06-02T17:00:45Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am not so sure humans are the only ones aware of their mortality. > > Elephants and chimpanzees have certainly been seen to grieve for their dead. Koko the gorilla seemed to grasp that its cat died and showed grief. Certainly animals run from things that are likely to kill them. Programmed response or some realization they do not want to die? If programmed then how do you explain animals risking themselves in order to save their young or even a human in some cases? > > We cannot say what goes on in an animal’s mind and of course animals vary widely in their intellectual capacity. Nevertheless I think some of the brighter ones at least have some notion of death. Can an elephant seeing other elephants die of old age understand that is in store for it too? I have no idea. I just believe animals have a more complex and rich internal “dialog” (for lack of a better word) than we give them credit for. What knowledge that encompasses I could not say. An animal seeming to grieve over another animals death does not necessarily indicate it understands its own mortality. It may understand that it can die, but not necessarily that it will die. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/7 "2010-06-02T18:36:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I thought it was opposable thumbs. I thought it was the ability to program a VCR. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/8 "2010-06-02T18:58:47Z")
I’d say what sets us apart from other animals is our ability _to discuss with one another_ abstract concepts like “mortality”. Animals communicate, both with each other and with us - anyone who has owned a pet knows that. The reason we cannot know if animals think about their own mortality is that there is no way of communicating such concepts with an animal, or them with us; and I doubt very much if they communicate concerning such concepts with each other. That’s the difference. If we could hold such a conversation with an animal, it would not be an “animal”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/9 "2010-06-02T19:25:19Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I thought it was the ability to program a VCR. Well, that doesn’t bode well for a lot of (formerly considered) humans. Of course, the DVR changed all that! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/10 "2010-06-02T20:30:01Z")
Was going to post a long rambling dissertation on my own thoughts concerning the OP which would probably go completely unread seeing as how it would be long, rambling and mainly incoherent, but I was saved the effort by this: [QUOTE=Malthus] I’d say what sets us apart from other animals is our ability to discuss with one another abstract concepts like “mortality”. [/QUOTE] And this: [QUOTE=John Mace] I would say that our knowledge of our mortality is a consequence of the thing that sets us apart-- not the thing itself. That “thing” is whatever cognitive functions we have that no other animals have, which we really don’t know how to quantify. [/QUOTE] Now I can go back to watching porn, something else that sets us apart from the animal kingdom and makes us the pinnacle of existence… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/11 "2010-06-03T01:11:02Z")
I’ve thought about this quite a bit actually. I believe the knowledge of our own mortality is what sets us apart from other animals. Other animals are aware of the concept of death. But to all observation, there are only two ways other animals react to this concept. One is knowing that death exists, but never applying the concept to themselves. If the food holds out, if I can escape every predator, if I never get sick, my life will go on, perhaps forever. The other possibility is knowing that their own animal self will die someday, but not being bothered by it. Hey, shit happens, y’know. I live, I will die, that’s part of life. This is the essential difference of mankind from the animal world. We know that someday we, our self, will die. And it bothers us very, very much. I think this discovery, knowledge of our mortality, must’ve come at a time so long ago that it is ingrained in us. A race memory. I believe that this has affected our evolution, in that it gave us two things animals do not have. Spirituality, that is the _need_ to believe in a supernatural afterlife, and ambition, the _need_ to search for personal advancement. These needs are psychological, in that you will not die if you don’t pursue them. But in pursuing them, mankind took the path that led them to an accelerated development from the animals. Mankind always hears the footsteps of the Grim Reaper, and it is a terrifying notion to us. Animals either don’t hear the footsteps, or don’t care if they do. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/12 "2010-06-03T04:29:21Z")
I think perhaps humans are the only creatures on Earth that worry about the future. I mean, a squirrel gathers nuts for winter but I don’t think he’s sitting there going “Oh my god, what will I do if I can’t find enough nuts?!” It’s not the _only_ thing that sets us apart, but it’s a significant one. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/13 "2010-06-03T13:50:55Z")
It could be in line with knowledge of our mortality, but I’ve always heard what sets us apart from animals is that we are able to contemplate our own existence. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/14 "2010-06-03T15:34:30Z")
Personally, I don’t think there is anything that sets us apart from other animals. It’s a continuum. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/15 "2010-06-03T15:40:38Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > It could be in line with knowledge of our mortality, but I’ve always heard what sets us apart from animals is that we are able to contemplate our own existence. We simply don’t know if animals do that or not. Same objection with “worry about the future”, above. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/16 "2010-06-03T18:34:43Z")
Let’s say we did an experiment whereby we took a dog - let’s call it Dog A - walking on a particular route, and then at a specific spot in the journey, another dog was brutally killed in full view of Dog A. Would an eventual display of negative reaction on approaching that area be adequate evidence that a dog has cognitive behaviour and a sense of impending events? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/17 "2010-06-04T11:42:28Z")
I’ve always thought it was our ability to be more than the sum of our parts; is what seperates us from the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/18 "2010-06-04T12:06:08Z")
[quote=“Whack-a-Mole, post:3, topic:541652”] …chimpanzees have certainly been seen to grieve for their dead. [quote] Really, all the work I’ve seen on chimps indicates complete lack of such a response. Can you provide a reference? > [@](#): > > Koko the gorilla seemed to grasp that its cat died and showed grief. Since the entire Koko show turned out to be an utter hoax fabricated by the owner, I think we can discount that one. > [@](#): > > Certainly animals run from things that are likely to kill them. Programmed response or some realization they do not want to die? Plants also move away from things that are going to kill them. Unless you are going to argue that a cucumber has an apprehension of its own mortality I think we can discount this. > [@](#): > > If programmed then how do you explain animals risking themselves in order to save their young or even a human in some cases? It’s programmed. Or are you seriously suggesting that a bee knows that it is going to die? > [@](#): > > Nevertheless I think some of the brighter ones at least have some notion of death. Chimpanzees will carry around a dead infant and attempt to force it to feed. Then after the corpse starts to stink they throw it away and that’s it. It’s hard to see why any animal with even the vaguest notion of death would behave in that manner. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/19 "2010-06-04T12:08:53Z")
Let’s leave bees and cucumbers out of it and concentrate on those creatures with big enough brains to deal with abstract thoughts. As for the chimpanzee one, I can easily imagine a human being so distraught they didn’t want to let their dead baby go. The throwing it away afterwards bit, I’m keeping out of. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652/20 "2010-06-05T09:05:56Z")
[quote=“Blake, post:18, topic:541652”] [quote=“Whack-a-Mole, post:3, topic:541652”] …chimpanzees have certainly been seen to grieve for their dead. > [@](#): > > Really, all the work I’ve seen on chimps indicates complete lack of such a response. Can you provide a reference? [http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(10)00218-6](http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2810%2900218-6) and [http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/04/chimps-grieve-over-dead-relative.html?rss=1](http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/04/chimps-grieve-over-dead-relative.html?rss=1) on the other hand > **['Grieving' chimps need rigorous study | Ros Coward](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/apr/29/grieving-chimps-need-more-research)** > > Ros Coward: Chimpanzee images have been presented as proof they share human emotions. Be wary of such speculative observation [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-knowledge-of-our-mortality-what-sets-us-apart-from-other-animals/541652.md?page=2)