# Is our political system outdated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 26, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913 "2015-05-26T21:56:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dibbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dibbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dibbs)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/21 "2015-05-27T02:23:33Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Your proposal seems like a very bad idea. I need many more details before I can be sure just how bad of an idea it is. It’s so bad it’s BRILLIANT.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/22 "2015-05-27T02:24:51Z")
Most people hang up on political surveys. How many people do you think really would actively participate in a system where they had to vote on everything? ---
**Author:** ![Dibbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dibbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dibbs)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/23 "2015-05-27T02:27:06Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Also, working democracies are divided against themselves. Separate branches, each jealous of the others, always watching them, pouncing on corruption. > > What means would a pure popular democracy have to guard against corruption? Where are the inspectors, the auditors, the internal affairs investigators, the oversight committees, and all of the other “sunlight” apparati? (Apparatuses?) > > We already suffer from the unanswerable question, “Who watches the watchmen?” But a system with no watchmen at all is going to be heaven on earth for embezzlers. Yeah! Just trust me, man, I’ll spend your money wisely! The national debt is at $18.2 trillion and it’s growing by leaps and bounds. Institute my plan of harnessing the collective will of the people and things can only get better. Trust me.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/24 "2015-05-27T02:32:00Z")
Michael Shaara, “2066: Election Day.” [Oft-reprinted.](http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?55779) Or go back further to the [Technocracy movement](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement) of the early 1930s, a flare-up of a idea from 1919. > [@](#): > > The technocrats proposed replacing politicians and businesspeople with scientists and engineers who had the technical expertise to manage the economy. If we’re going to give credit where credit’s due, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Dibbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dibbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dibbs)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/25 "2015-05-27T02:39:04Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Most people hang up on political surveys. How many people do you think really would actively participate in a system where they had to vote on everything? I’m talking about a home computer system that a person can click to at their leisure and do all the studying of the issues that most interest them to the degree they want. Surely said system is a million times more convenient than people having to get in their cars and drive across town … and I would point out that people don’t vote on “everything” at present time but with the system I’m proposing they’d be able to vote on many more things and participate much more fully in governing the country. Diane Finestiene stood in front of the Senate during the Bush One administration and boasted about banks getting big tax payer bail out money by saying “70,000 out of the 80,000 of my constituents implored me with emails to vote against the bail out. But I did it anyway because they just don’t understand what’s best”!! Is THAT your idea of representative government? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/26 "2015-05-27T02:44:53Z")
> [@Dibbs](#): > > The national debt is at $18.2 trillion and it’s growing by leaps and bounds. Institute my plan of harnessing the collective will of the people and things can only get better. Trust me.😃 Now where have I heard that phrase before? Oh, also, whom do you trust to maintain the vote-counting system? Hi, I’m in the IT field, and I can be trusted with access to the raw data. Really! While I’m at it, I also don’t like this idea because it leaves out the discussion and debate phase of decision-making. Oh, yeah, you’d have vast numbers of fora such as the SDMB, and ideas would be talked out in detail. But there wouldn’t be any formalized debate, as we enjoy (?) with governments now. It would be just a room full of 250 million people all talking at once. It would just result in Sean Hannity and his ilk having more power and influence! ---
**Author:** ![Dibbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dibbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dibbs)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/27 "2015-05-27T02:53:10Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I can’t really tell from the OP, but under this proposal does the technology itself make decisions or simply allow people a “better” way to make decisions? The technology is the convenient, efficient tool by with the citizens would implement their will on political matters that are currently being exploited by too many inept, unprincipled politicians that are too often more interested in lining their pockets and attending cocktail parties. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/28 "2015-05-27T02:58:48Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Michael Shaara, “2066: Election Day.” [Oft-reprinted.](http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?55779) > > Or go back further to the [Technocracy movement](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement) of the early 1930s, a flare-up of a idea from 1919. > > If we’re going to give credit where credit’s due, that is. Frank Herbert called the idea “the demopoll” IIRC. It’s in The Dosadi Experiment and possibly The Whipping Star. Herbert describes it as one of the worst forms of government. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/29 "2015-05-27T03:01:09Z")
> [@Dibbs](#): > > The technology is the convenient, efficient tool by with the citizens would implement their will on political matters that are currently being exploited by too many inept, unprincipled politicians that are too often more interested in lining their pockets and attending cocktail parties. I’d love to see your method implemented and see how/whether it works. As far away from me as can be, though. You know, just in case. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/30 "2015-05-27T03:03:21Z")
> [@Dibbs](#): > > I’m talking about a home computer system that a person can click to at their leisure and do all the studying of the issues that most interest them to the degree they want. Surely said system is a million times more convenient than people having to get in their cars and drive across town … and I would point out that people don’t vote on “everything” at present time but with the system I’m proposing they’d be able to vote on many more things and participate much more fully in governing the country. People don’t generally care about politics until some issue gets them worked up, like the police shooting unarmed people, or a health care law that makes people buy insurance, or the banks failing or what have you, and then they go into a frenzy of paranoia, sloganeering, prejudice and partisanship, demanding that Something Be Done, regardless of the costs. Then, when the issue that inspired their passions is passed, they sink back into political torpor, leading their daily lives, waiting for the media to get them worked up on some other issue. You want people to participate more fully in governing the country? The people don’t want to do it, and they wouldn’t be good at it if they tried. ---
**Author:** ![Dibbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dibbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dibbs)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/31 "2015-05-27T03:07:54Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Now where have I heard that phrase before? > > Oh, also, whom do you trust to maintain the vote-counting system? Hi, I’m in the IT field, and I can be trusted with access to the raw data. Really! > > While I’m at it, I also don’t like this idea because it leaves out the discussion and debate phase of decision-making. Oh, yeah, you’d have vast numbers of fora such as the SDMB, and ideas would be talked out in detail. But there wouldn’t be any formalized debate, as we enjoy (?) with governments now. It would be just a room full of 250 million people all talking at once. > > It would just result in Sean Hannity and his ilk having more power and influence! Where there’s a will, there’s a way. Our current system is full of cancer and the country is circling the drain as a result. Fine tune the system I propose with great intellects before it’s too late. If my idea of allowing American citizens to use their God-given commonsense isn’t doable via their computers, then I suggest the second best alternative – a wise benevolent iron-fisted dictator. ---
**Author:** ![Dibbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dibbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dibbs)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/32 "2015-05-27T03:21:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I’d love to see your method implemented and see how/whether it works. As far away from me as can be, though. You know, just in case. While you may think the status quo is fine, I have no doubt that it’s not much more than a house of cards that will in the not so distant future come tumbling down and it will be every man, woman and child for themselves. A vast eighteen trillion dollar ocean of red ink, and a dinosaur political system to make it go away? I don’t think so. And that’s not even scratching the surface of the problems brought about by this incredibly corrupt and inefficient system. Btw, isn’t it just great that our president is enjoying all these fabulous (and pricey) vacations?😛 ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/33 "2015-05-27T03:27:19Z")
> [@Dibbs](#): > > While you may think the status quo is fine Definitely do not. I just don’t know if what you’re describing will result in something far worse. It definitely has the potential to. That is why I want it tried out far away from me. If it is shown to work, I’ll be all for adopting it. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/34 "2015-05-27T03:27:38Z")
I do not understand OP’s plan. Is he speaking of direct democracy? Dismantle Congress, let people Internet-vote on every bill? Even if people were smart enough to evaluate detailed CIA reports from the Middle East and the detailed financial analyses made to cope with our next financial crisis, _where do they get their information?_ Reuters does a fair job of presenting the top news bites, but analysis and commentary is needed for decision-making. Will OP pick the qualified commentators personally? Give equal time to the 500 “most qualified” commentators? How do we pick those 500? A show like “Dancing with the Stars”? If scientists are allowed to present comments, do we give equal time to the liars at FauxNews? The idea is hopeless. I often hope for a counterexample to Churchill’s “Nothing better than representative democracy” but this isn’t it. Frankly, talk of home computers and Internet was enough to make us reject the idea. Technology is overrated; for example, many people are infatuated with electronic voting machines, but they’ve apparently _increased_ scope for fraud. > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Although I think the parliamentary system, in broad outline, is a little better than presidential systems, the great majority of problems facing the United States would persist even with my constitutional ideal. Beginning with Nixon’s election, the U.S. has had 24 Congressional terms, and for only 5 of them did the President’s party control both Houses of Congress. 79% of the terms were in gridlock mode. You can see the consequences today, with half the nation embracing Obamacare, and the other half committed to repealing it for no real reason except the Democratic name attached. I envy parliamentary systems where the Government has a legislative majority almost by definition. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/35 "2015-05-27T03:53:32Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Beginning with Nixon’s election, the U.S. has had 24 Congressional terms, and for only 5 of them did the President’s party control both Houses of Congress. NETA: _ **Six** _ out of 24 were same party if you include the 2009 term where Demos were hobbled by Teddy Kennedy illness and Al Franken controversy. I stared [at this chart](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Presidents_and_control_of_Congress#/media/File:Combined--Control_of_the_U.S._House_of_Representatives_-_Control_of_the_U.S._Senate.png) for a minute and had trouble counting the common-color terms. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/36 "2015-05-27T04:48:21Z")
> [@Dibbs](#): > > Btw, isn’t it just great that our president is enjoying all these fabulous (and pricey) vacations?😛 :dubious: Any evidence that Obama has taken any more or pricey vacations than any other recent president? Or is this just Faux Newsiverse talking points? Although I do have to thank you for posting that sentence. It gives me the perfect indication of how much weight to give the rest of your opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/37 "2015-05-27T05:57:10Z")
> [@Dibbs](#): > > . . . Our current system is full of cancer and the country is circling the drain as a result. . . . I can’t agree with this. We’re better off than we were in quite a few separate epochs in our history. We’re better off than under Nixon, or Grant, or Coolidge, or Hoover. We’re light-years ahead of the devastating Jefferson/Burr era. We’re certainly better off, as a nation, than we were in 1861-1865. Today’s scandals and corruption? The merest of trivia compared to what this country has seen…and survived. > [@](#): > > If my idea of allowing American citizens to use their God-given commonsense isn’t doable via their computers, then I suggest the second best alternative – a wise benevolent iron-fisted dictator. A right-wing dictator, who will execute gays, or a left-wing dictator, who will tear down churches? Are you sure you want this kind of shitheel to have absolute power? What does “wise and benevolent” have to do with unrestricted power? What keeps him “wise and benevolent.” I think I will not be alone here in thinking this is a really shitten idea. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/38 "2015-05-27T06:25:41Z")
I think there’s a pretty vast excluded middle here. Having democracy doesn’t mean you need to put up with the excesses and inefficiencies of the american system. Other countries get by fine with either capping campaign spending outright, or limiting things like how much advertizing you can buy. Just cutting the length of the process would be a good start. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/39 "2015-05-27T08:54:54Z")
Then only thing Id change is the Presidential Primary system. I get it: its a huge country, and its hard to travel around all 50 states to get delegates; but its also unfair that tiny states like Iowa and New Hampshire get to knock off many of the candidates so soon before party members of other states get their say. Why not a lottery? You got 50 states, lets say theres a primary in 4 of them, on the same day every two weeks, from the first week of January to the end of June? Plus 2 leftover at the end. But, in August before, the order of the Primary states is done by lottery—each states gets ping pong bolls by the number of electoral votes. So you could have, for instance, Connecticut + Texas +Arizona + Michigan first week of January Then its New Mexico + Hawaii + Louisiana + Rhode Island, 2 weeks later, with the candidates given 2 weeks to pick their spots. etc etc In 4 years, theres a new lottery. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913/40 "2015-05-27T10:47:57Z")
You keep harping on about the debt as if somehow “letting people vote with their computers” would wash it away or that it would be desirable to do so. Do you expect the people to accomplish this by raising their own taxes, or by gutting the economy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-our-political-system-outdated/720913.md?page=3)