# Is Palin a populist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 9, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288 "2010-01-09T17:04:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/1 "2010-01-09T17:04:15Z")
**Sam Stone** argues [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=547076) that Palin is a populist by which I suspect he means that her appeal is folksy common-sense, regardless of whether it makes a lot of sense or actually helps out, you know, folks. But is that all that’s required for a pol to be a populist? Ross Perot tried appealing on some of the same grounds, but I didn’t see a whole lot of genuine populism in his policies. What if anything does “populism” mean in 2010? Does it simply mean “dumbed-down demagoguery”? It seems to me to have taken on a very bad connotation in recent years, as when Hillary desperately expressed support for gas price relief that every sensible economist denounced and her attacks on them pointy-headed economist types was labelled a “populist” appeal. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/2 "2010-01-09T17:10:42Z")
From wikipedia: > [@](#): > > Academic and scholarly definitions of populism widely vary and, among both journalists and scholars, the term is often employed in loose, inconsistent and undefined ways to denote appeals to ‘the people’, ‘demagogy’ and ‘catch-all’ politics or as a receptacle for new types of parties whose classification observers are unsure of. Another factor held to diminish the value of ‘populism’ in some societies is that, as Margaret Canovan notes in her 1981 study Populism, unlike labels such as ‘conservative’ or ‘socialist’, the meanings of which have been ‘chiefly dictated by their adherents’, contemporary populists rarely call themselves ‘populists’ and usually reject the term when it is applied to them by others [11]. Some exceptions to this pattern of pejorative usage exist, notably in the United States, but it appears likely that this is due to the memories and traditions of earlier democratic movements (e.g. farmers’ movements, New Deal reform movements, and the civil rights movement) that were often called (and called themselves) populist. It may also be due to linguistic confusions of populism with terms such as “popular” [12]. > > Due to the attention on populism in the academic world, scholars have made advances in defining the term in ways which can be profitably employed in research and help to distinguish between movements which are populist and those which simply borrow from populism. One of the latest of these is the definition by Daniele Albertazzi and Duncan McDonnell who, in their volume Twenty-First Century Populism, define populism as “an ideology which pits a virtuous and homogeneous people against a set of elites and dangerous ‘others’ who are together depicted as depriving (or attempting to deprive) the sovereign people of their rights, values, prosperity, identity and voice” [13]. Rather than viewing populism in terms of specific social bases, economic programs, issues or electorates, as discussions of right-wing populism have tended to do[14], this conception of populism belongs to the tradition of scholars such as Ernesto Laclau[15], Pierre-Andre Taguieff [16], Yves Meny and Yves Surel [17] who have all sought to focus on populism per se, rather than simply as an appendage of other ideologies (such as nationalism, neo-liberalism etc.). In fact, given its central tenet that democracy should reflect the pure and undiluted will of the people, populism can sit easily with ideologies of both Right and Left. Indeed, while leaders of populist movements in recent decades have claimed to be on both the left and the right of the political spectrum, many populists claim to be neither “left wing,” nor “centrist” nor “right wing.”[18][19][20] Seems like Palin fits comfortably in there. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/3 "2010-01-09T18:30:05Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Ross Perot tried appealing on some of the same grounds, but I didn’t see a whole lot of genuine populism in his policies. Could you expand on that a bit? I don’t think distilling your message for widespread consumption is populism. Whether it’s that giant whooshing sound or a campaign slogan, appealing to the masses is not tantamount to populism. Palin’s winking, in itself, isn’t a populist move. But combine it with the Joe-the-mauve-couch strategy and the emotional appeal to crowds (say, the bleating of socialism = bad without defining or caring about what socialism is) as the _focal point_ of her image and policy stance — that she’s just sucha good folk that she will make the best decisions intuitively youbecha — that makes her a populist candidate. Populist from the negative side of the definitions, not populist from the she-represents-the-majority-of-opinion area. A wishful demagogue. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/4 "2010-01-09T18:52:21Z")
Given the way the federal government has handled the financial crisis, _all_ challengers are going to have a strong flavor of populism in their campaigns. Whether they are able to unseat the incumbents is going to rest largely on whether there is another leg down in the economy by November. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/5 "2010-01-09T18:55:49Z")
She attempts to appeal on a personal level to the lower classes and the less educated, rather than making any attempt to forumlate or articulate any kind of vision or policy plan, or even demonstrate any comprehension of policy or demonstrate any intellectual acumen at all. So yes, she is populist in the sense that her appeal is to people who don’t understand politics or big words, but respond to inflammatory rhetoric, catch phrases, arm band religion and simple minded platitudes. This is a limited kind of populism, however. She is very popular with a small segment of the populace, and does not have any ability to reach beyond it. Pure “populism” doesn’t work in the US on a universal scale. Too many people are educated. You have to have some semblence of ideas and comprehension eventually. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/6 "2010-01-09T19:06:54Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Given the way the federal government has handled the financial crisis, _all_ challengers are going to have a strong flavor of populism in their campaigns. Whether they are able to unseat the incumbents is going to rest largely on whether there is another leg down in the economy by November. But, with Palin, it seems like the main component of her appeal was as “one of us regular folks”, especially in contrast to that Harvard guy. She played that hand in much the same way that Giuliani played the 9/11 card. It is the _sine qua non_ of Palin’s appeal, such as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/7 "2010-01-09T19:13:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > She is very popular with a small segment of the populace, and does not have any ability to reach beyond it. This assumption terrifies me. Small segment of the populace? Vocal minorities can have a lot of power in a democracy. And while I’d love to be complacently relaxed in thinking it’s too small a segment to be afraid of, I just don’t have enough information. No ability to reach beyond it? Reaching deeper into the base can make up for that. And given the two-party system, perhaps a Republican candidate need not always reach too far. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/8 "2010-01-09T21:01:00Z")
“an ideology which pits a virtuous and homogeneous people against a set of elites and dangerous ‘others’ who are together depicted as depriving (or attempting to deprive) the sovereign people of their rights, values, prosperity, identity and voice” That is a pretty good description. Except the left uses economics and the right uses culture in their populism. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/9 "2010-01-10T00:24:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But, with Palin, it seems like the main component of her appeal was as “one of us regular folks”, especially in contrast to that Harvard guy. She played that hand in much the same way that Giuliani played the 9/11 card. It is the _sine qua non_ of Palin’s appeal, such as it is. Oh, I agree about Palin. She’s a menace. But Obama is so outside the mainstream in terms of his background and politics (not saying he is loony left - it has more to do with his extremely expansive view of the role of government relative to American norms) that his opponent in 2012 will be able to sound pretty sophisticated and lordly and still seem “regular” by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/10 "2010-01-10T01:40:18Z")
It’ll cost somewhere around $500 to get to see her speak at Tea Baggin 2010 (Electric Boogaloo), or ~$350, if memory serves, to JUST see her. I’m not sure if she’s ever taken a question since Katie Couric was all mean and gotcha-y, but if she ever does, I’d like someone to ask Mrs. Hockey Mom Populist why she’s comfortable speaking at a gig where it costs $350 just to gaze upon her lipstick. Personally, I think she’s just cashing in while the cashing in is good. I almost respect her for that… I mean, why the hell do the hard work of politickin’ if you can make more money by NOT doing the hard work of politickin’? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/11 "2010-01-10T06:05:55Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Oh, I agree about Palin. She’s a menace. But Obama is so outside the mainstream in terms of his background and politics (not saying he is loony left - it has more to do with his extremely expansive view of the role of government relative to American norms) that his opponent in 2012 will be able to sound pretty sophisticated and lordly and still seem “regular” by comparison. Damn Obama for signing the bank bailout. George W bush would never have done that!! Next thing you know he’ll have wage and price controls like that liberal Democrat president did in 1971. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/12 "2010-01-10T15:44:14Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Damn Obama for signing the bank bailout. George W bush would never have done that!! Next thing you know he’ll have wage and price controls like that liberal Democrat president did in 1971. Yes, Obama’s philosophy is cut from the same cloth as Bush and Nixon. And Nixon was probably one of the few presidents who could rival Obama in terms of intellect. I can only hope Obama does better by the nation than Bush and Nixon, but so far I’m not impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/13 "2010-01-10T16:40:47Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Oh, I agree about Palin. She’s a menace. But Obama is so outside the mainstream in terms of his background and politics (not saying he is loony left - it has more to do with his extremely expansive view of the role of government relative to American norms) that his opponent in 2012 will be able to sound pretty sophisticated and lordly and still seem “regular” by comparison. > [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Yes, Obama’s philosophy is cut from the same cloth as Bush and Nixon. And Nixon was probably one of the few presidents who could rival Obama in terms of intellect. I can only hope Obama does better by the nation than Bush and Nixon, but so far I’m not impressed. These two quotes about President Obama seem divergent to me. First he “is so outside the mainstream in terms of his background and politics (with a extremely expansive view of the role of government relative to American norms)”, then he is “cut from the same cloth as Bush and Nixon”. Personally, I don’t think that President Obama is very different from any President in the last 40 years in politics and background, except maybe George W. Bush, who I view as an aberration. Can you expand on what you makes you think he " is so outside the mainstream in terms of his background and politics"? I am really curious about this stance. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/14 "2010-01-10T17:37:32Z")
Well, in terms of background, it’s pretty obvious. A mixed-race, effectively “black” son of an African immigrant, raised partially outside the country, by a single mother and grandparents. Even his home state of Hawaii is unusual in that it is not part of the continental United States. He’s also completely self-made, having started out without any kind of money or connections, and established himself on the strength of sheer academic achievement and personal talents. That in itself is not unique for Presidents (the same can be said of Clinton), but it’s doing it the hard way. I don’t think his politics are unusual, and I disagree that he hasa particularly “expansive” vision of government. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/15 "2010-01-10T18:09:28Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Yes, Obama’s philosophy is cut from the same cloth as Bush and Nixon. And Nixon was probably one of the few presidents who could rival Obama in terms of intellect. I can only hope Obama does better by the nation than Bush and Nixon, but so far I’m not impressed. You admit your assertions is crap, though, right? Nixon and Bush were in office 16 of the last 40 years, so it’s hard to say policies they implemented were out of the mainstream. Furthermore, the size of the Federal govt grew more under the conservatives presidents than the liberals. Then, you had the power of the govt expand under Bush to effectively neuter habeas corpus. Disagree all you want with Obama and his policies, but it is completely disingenuous to assert that he is some loony left-winger trying to radically increase the reach of govt. If the conservatives hadn’t so thoroughly fucked up the economy in the first place, then the stimulus spending would never have been necessary. I see no evidence that Obama does not support mainline positions on the economy and the role of govt. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/16 "2010-01-11T02:53:27Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > But Obama is so outside the mainstream in terms of his background and politics (not saying he is loony left - it has more to do with his extremely expansive view of the role of government relative to American norms) that his opponent in 2012 will be able to sound pretty sophisticated and lordly and still seem “regular” by comparison. But, Obama **isn’t** “outside the mainstream.” He let us **think** that in 2008, but he has, sadly, turned out to be quite comfortably within it. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/17 "2010-01-11T19:19:14Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > I’d like someone to ask Mrs. Hockey Mom Populist why she’s comfortable speaking at a gig where it costs $350 just to gaze upon her lipstick. I’d like to see Sarah Palin in a burka. A black PVC burka with a red grill or whatever the bit they look out of is called. I’d like to see that horsey clip-clopping around, in her burka, reciting the Koran. ---
**Author:** ![2ply](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/b2d939/32.png) [@2ply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ply)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/18 "2010-01-11T21:24:47Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > “an ideology which pits a virtuous and homogeneous people against a set of elites and dangerous ‘others’ who are together depicted as depriving (or attempting to deprive) the sovereign people of their rights, values, prosperity, identity and voice” > > That is a pretty good description. Except the left uses economics and the right uses culture in their populism. Yeah. Michael Moore is perhaps the best current example of populism on the American left. Hugo Chavez probably takes the title internationally. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/19 "2010-01-11T21:29:36Z")
Not only is she a populist, but now she’s a member of the FoxNews team. Not a big surprise (I think I even predicted that in an earlier thread about her). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288/20 "2010-01-11T21:40:29Z")
Did anyone not predict that? I don’t think she has a coherent enough political philosophy to categorize it as anything. Well, “mavericky”, maybe. As for populism, there’s a fake kind that the GOP has found very effective over the last couple of decades, but which decidedly does not have The People’s interests at heart over those of the Moneyed Interests. It’s been remarkably easy. Certainly her rhetoric has been full of Joe the Plumber stuff, but not necessarily her policies. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-palin-a-populist/524288.md?page=2)