# Is phi a mystical number? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [July 19, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272 "2010-07-19T20:59:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Metrolog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Metrolog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metrolog)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/1 "2010-07-19T20:59:54Z")
\*\*Is phi a mystical number? \*\* > **[Is phi a mystical number as claimed in The Da Vinci Code?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343642/is-phi-a-mystical-number-as-claimed-in-em-the-da-vinci-code-em)** Is phi a mystical number? Yes, it is! Height of the Great Pyramid = 5813.011885 inches 5813.011885 x 1.618033988 = 9405.650803 inches Length of the Grand Gallery = 1881.130161 inches 9405.650803 : 5 = 1881.130161 inches The Grand Gallery with the number Phi (1.618033988 ) is the mathematical center of the Great Pyramid’s physical construction. The Grand Gallery, number Phi and the Earth’s measurements: [http://www.scribd.com/doc/34402764/Divine-Proportion-of-the-Great-Pyramid](http://www.scribd.com/doc/34402764/Divine-Proportion-of-the-Great-Pyramid) :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/2 "2010-07-19T21:12:15Z")
As the master said: > [@Cecil Adams](#): > > Phi governs the proportions of the pyramids, the Parthenon, and so on. There’s little evidence that ancient architects used the golden section, but even if they did, **so what**? Euclid figured it out, and others could have too. Emphasis added ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/3 "2010-07-19T21:13:42Z")
Uh, you do realize that the Great Pyramid isn’t a natural phenomenon, right? So some of the measurements of the Pyramid have phi show up in them: All that proves is that, then as now, some folks just like that number. It’s only mystical if gods like it, not humans. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/4 "2010-07-19T21:20:04Z")
Wait. Someone measured the height of the great pyramid in inches, to six decimal places? To an accuracy of one millionth of an inch, from the base? Meaning that the base is consistently flat to a tolerance of one millionth of an inch (or the measurement is invalid taken from a datum somewhere else on the base) _cough_BOLLOCKS!_cough_ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/5 "2010-07-19T21:28:51Z")
> [@Metrolog](#): > > \*\*Is phi a mystical number? > \*\* > [Is phi a mystical number as claimed in The Da Vinci Code? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2513/is-phi-a-mystical-number-as-claimed-in-em-the-da-vinci-code-em) > > Is phi a mystical number? Yes, it is! > > Height of the Great Pyramid = 5813.011885 inches > > 5813.011885 x 1.618033988 = 9405.650803 inches > > Length of the Grand Gallery = 1881.130161 inches > > 9405.650803 : 5 = 1881.130161 inches > > The Grand Gallery with the number Phi (1.618033988 ) is the mathematical center of the Great Pyramid’s physical construction. > > The Grand Gallery, number Phi and the Earth’s measurements: > > [http://www.scribd.com/doc/34402764/Divine-Proportion-of-the-Great-Pyramid](http://www.scribd.com/doc/34402764/Divine-Proportion-of-the-Great-Pyramid) > > :dubious: When were these measurements taken? At what time of day? What was the temperature at that time? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/6 "2010-07-19T21:33:08Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Wait. Someone measured the height of the great pyramid in inches, to six decimal places? To an accuracy of one millionth of an inch, from the base? Meaning that the base is consistently flat to a tolerance of one millionth of an inch (or the measurement is invalid taken from a datum somewhere else on the base) > > _cough_BOLLOCKS!_cough_ Not inches, [pyramid inches](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_inch), a special unit of measure designed to make the numerological woo (sorta) work. ---
**Author:** ![Metrolog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Metrolog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metrolog)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/7 "2010-07-19T21:53:02Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Not inches, [pyramid inches](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_inch), a special unit of measure designed to make the numerological woo (sorta) work. Not\* pyramid inches\*, inches! ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/8 "2010-07-19T22:33:01Z")
Well, the claim is that a ratio of lengths is related to phi, so it doesn’t matter at all what units are used. But I rather suspect someone worked backwards from an answer they wanted … ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/9 "2010-07-19T22:54:31Z")
Actually, since we’re dealing with millions of an inch, ya gotta ask, are these pre-1959 Imperial inches, pre-1959 US (Surveyor’s) inches (exactly 1/39.37 meters), or International inches (exactly 0.0254 meters)? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/10 "2010-07-20T00:59:50Z")
Has any adjustment been made for erosion? If not, then the ratio was different when it was built. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/11 "2010-07-20T02:41:25Z")
**Is phi a mystical number?** No. However, three is a magic number, yes it is, it’s a magic number. > **[Schoolhouse Rock Lyrics](http://www.schoolhouserock.tv/)** > > Schoolhouse Rock Lyrics - Vote for your favorite Schoolhouse Rock song! ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/12 "2010-07-20T02:50:18Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Has any adjustment been made for erosion? If not, then the ratio was different when it was built. Not only erosion, but didn’t it originally have a golden cap on top? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/13 "2010-07-20T14:16:34Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > **Is phi a mystical number?** > > No. However, three is a magic number, yes it is, it’s a magic number. > > [Schoolhouse Rock Lyrics](http://www.schoolhouserock.tv/Three.html) But phi is the loneliest number that you’ll ever do. ---
**Author:** ![Metrolog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Metrolog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metrolog)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/14 "2010-07-20T17:14:13Z")
**One year and the number Phi** 1 (tropical) year = 365.242 days 365.242 : 3.14159 = 116.2602377 days 116.2602377 x 1.618033988 = 188.1130161 days 365.242 : 188.1130161 = 1.941609398 days 1.941609398 x 1.618033988 = 3.14159 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/15 "2010-07-20T17:38:22Z")
1/2 = .5 .5 x 3 = 1.5 1/1.5 = 2/3 2/3 x 3 = 2 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/16 "2010-07-20T17:42:22Z")
> [@Metrolog](#): > > **One year and the number Phi** > 1 (tropical) year = 365.242 days > > 365.242 : 3.14159 = 116.2602377 days > > 116.2602377 x 1.618033988 = 188.1130161 days > > 365.242 : 188.1130161 = 1.941609398 days > > 1.941609398 x 1.618033988 = 3.14159 > > 😉 A A:B=C C x D= E A:E=F then, yes, it’s not really a surprise that F x D = B, is it? Showing my work: F= A:E=A: (CxD) thus FxD=A:C=B ETA: Beaten to it! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/17 "2010-07-20T18:04:38Z")
> [@Metrolog](#): > > **One year and the number Phi** > 1 (tropical) year = 365.242 days > > 365.242 : 3.14159 = 116.2602377 days > > 116.2602377 x 1.618033988 = 188.1130161 days > > 365.242 : 188.1130161 = 1.941609398 days > > 1.941609398 x 1.618033988 = 3.14159 > > 😉 So what? Please tell us what _you_ mean by “mystical number”, and what the temperature was when the measurements you gave out in the first post were made and who made those measurements. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/18 "2010-07-20T18:07:49Z")
Attempts to make arithmetic look mystical make me sad. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/19 "2010-07-20T18:10:22Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Attempts to make arithmetic look mystical make me sad. Attempts to make arithmetic look mystical make the baby Einstein cry. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272/20 "2010-07-20T18:25:38Z")
Not that anyone’s been taking the OP seriously, but remember folks: φ has but one interesting property of any note: φ[sup]2[/sup] = φ + 1. This is the only significant thing there is about φ, that it is the unique positive solution to this equation. If someone claims to have something to say about φ, but cannot figure out how it relates to this equation, then they almost certainly haven’t hit upon anything of note at all. The measurements in the OP are worthless; there is no reason to believe those hold any relation to the actual values. On all of the Internet, they appear only in this thread and in one document by a “modern Canadian mystic and pyramidologist”, who provides no reason to believe he didn’t just make them up out of thin air, and who is, by all appearances, a woo-woo Cocoa Puffs harebrained nut. And, yes, there’s nothing mystical about arithmetic, or anything else in math. Math is about clearing away confusion and gaining understanding, not sitting there slack-jawed in gaping awe. Good math, I daresay, should leave you saying “Oh, that’s obvious now”, not “Oh, wow! Look at the hidden magic of the universe!” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-phi-a-mystical-number/547272.md?page=2)