# Is piracy the same as stealing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2006, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-piracy-the-same-as-stealing/379781 "2006-11-09T23:28:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![rhettro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@rhettro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhettro)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-piracy-the-same-as-stealing/379781/101 "2006-11-21T20:10:38Z")
[QUOTE=ParentalAdvisory] If each downloaded album represents one full album that could have been purchased at the store, and you downloaded it without purchasing it, how is that not theft? That would be on average $12 dollars that would have gone to the artists, marketers, and music companies. [/QUOTE] Consider the reverse. If you don’t pirate or purchase the album, have you “shorted” the artist $12? This is how the pirating of intellectual property is different than the stealing something physical. They are both dishonest behaviors though. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-piracy-the-same-as-stealing/379781/102 "2006-11-21T22:16:59Z")
[QUOTE=mr. jp] Why is it that artists don’t set out their albums to be downloaded online for something like $3 then? I illegally download all my albums, but if I only had to pay $3 that went straight to the artist, I would buy them all instead. [/QUOTE] I think that in most cases there are others involved in the creation and delivery of the album than the artist, and those peoples’ and organizations’ desire for compensation and profit push the price up. There are some less-advertised artists out there who offer media more cheaply or free, I think, if you look hard enough. (Though, $3 for an entire album seems a little cheap. You may be impossible to please. You can buy individual songs for a buck or so I think; if you’re the type who gets an album because you like two or three songs on it, that might work out for you.) [QUOTE=rhettro] Consider the reverse. If you don’t pirate or purchase the album, have you “shorted” the artist $12? This is how the pirating of intellectual property is different than the stealing something physical. They are both dishonest behaviors though. [/QUOTE] One obvious difference is, if you don’t benefit from the artist( and co)'s work, then you don’t owe them anything. The logical problem occurs when a person equates “Not buying at full price” with “stealing for free”, simply because “buying at full price” is not something they’re inclined to do. ---
**Author:** ![rhettro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@rhettro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhettro)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-piracy-the-same-as-stealing/379781/103 "2006-11-21T22:50:13Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] One obvious difference is, if you don’t benefit from the artist( and co)'s work, then you don’t owe them anything. The logical problem occurs when a person equates “Not buying at full price” with “stealing for free”, simply because “buying at full price” is not something they’re inclined to do. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure if it is less logical than the notion that one’s benefit from an artist’s work, causes a debt upon the artist. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-piracy-the-same-as-stealing/379781/104 "2006-11-21T23:01:03Z")
[QUOTE=rhettro] I’m not sure if it is less logical than the notion that one’s benefit from an artist’s work, causes a debt upon the artist. [/QUOTE] Is it more or less logical if it’s a live showing that you’re benefiting from? Are the ethics of fence-hopping more or less logical than piracy, and what’s the difference? ---
**Author:** ![rhettro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@rhettro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhettro)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-piracy-the-same-as-stealing/379781/105 "2006-11-22T19:47:43Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] Is it more or less logical if it’s a live showing that you’re benefiting from? Are the ethics of fence-hopping more or less logical than piracy, and what’s the difference? [/QUOTE] I’m not trying to justify piracy, as I think it is wrong, I’m just pointing out how it’s different than the classical definition of stealing. I think it is more accurate to say piracy lowers one’s potential profits. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-piracy-the-same-as-stealing/379781/106 "2006-11-22T21:11:34Z")
[QUOTE=rhettro] I’m not trying to justify piracy, as I think it is wrong, I’m just pointing out how it’s different than the classical definition of stealing. I think it is more accurate to say piracy lowers one’s potential profits. [/QUOTE] Your intent is noted; you’ll admit that on its own that post could be (mis-)read as attempting to justify piracy, I think. If you want to get semantic about it, what’s the “classical” definition of stealing? If it includes the notion of “stealing ideas” or “stealing information”, then copyright infringement can be properly described as theft. If it’s limited to “the removal of something from it’s owner’s possession into your own possession”, then it’s not. Myself, I think that the definition of theft is pretty broad and pretty much always has been, what with “stealing a kiss” being legitimate usage and all. (And while piracy does tend to have a negative impact on profits, I would hesitate to use that as a defining property of “piracy”. There are lots of _other_ ways to lower somebody’s profits, after all.) ---
**Author:** ![iluvurmom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iluvurmom/32/7276_2.png) [@iluvurmom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iluvurmom)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-piracy-the-same-as-stealing/379781/107 "2006-12-18T02:17:49Z")
just reading the subject of this thread made me laugh. Of course its stealing you are taking something you did not pay for! ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-piracy-the-same-as-stealing/379781/108 "2006-12-18T05:34:43Z")
[QUOTE=iluvurmom] just reading the subject of this thread made me laugh. Of course its stealing you are taking something you did not pay for! [/QUOTE] Stop stealing all that air, criminal. P.S. I love my mom, too. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-piracy-the-same-as-stealing/379781/109 "2006-12-18T07:38:30Z")
[QUOTE=treis] Pardon me, “physical property” then. I thought it was obvious what I was referring to, but apparently not. [/QUOTE] There is nothing in the definition of “theft” that limits it to _physical_ property. Physical property is not the only kind of property. > [@griffin](#): > > Again which totally irrelevant to the OP. Whether or not some intangible right is encrouched upon by the act of copying the CD… NOTHING IS TAKEN. So it is not theft. As already noted, intellectual property is taken. Intellectual property is not “nothing”. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-piracy-the-same-as-stealing/379781/110 "2006-12-18T07:44:34Z")
Arrgh! I just got suckered into posting in a month-old thread, didn’t I? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![iluvurmom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iluvurmom/32/7276_2.png) [@iluvurmom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iluvurmom)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-piracy-the-same-as-stealing/379781/111 "2006-12-19T17:20:39Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] There is nothing in the definition of “theft” that limits it to _physical_ property. Physical property is not the only kind of property. As already noted, intellectual property is taken. Intellectual property is not “nothing”. [/QUOTE] Agreed! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-piracy-the-same-as-stealing/379781.md?page=5)