# Is Pixar better than classic Disney? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 17, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883 "2015-04-17T01:36:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![protoboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@protoboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/protoboard)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/21 "2015-04-17T22:41:05Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Early on, there was a very consistent tone to all of Pixar’s output because they relied on a small pool of very good directors. That’s no longer the case. One critic dismissed **Wall-E** as a scolding reminder to clean your room and watch less TV and he had a point. > > The Pixar shorts are pretty revealing. “[One Man Band](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0479113/?ref_=nv_sr_1)” is amazing technique and music, but its message–competition gives you more bang for the buck–is barely worth the effort. Compare it to the German animated “[Balance](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096880/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1)”, which has a deep and complex message about the virtues of cooperation over competition, and a lot of Pixar’s output looks like a lavish delivery of a cheap punchline. You’re right, there is something very conservative/capitalist about the messages in Pixar movies/shorts. Of course you have to consider the era they are coming from, the 1980s-today ie the decades of greed. ---
**Author:** ![protoboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@protoboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/protoboard)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/22 "2015-04-17T22:42:16Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I counter with Robin Hood and The Fox and the Hound, both of which stand up as, if not classics of animation, then at least as entertaining. Oh yeah, those would be exceptions. I also like Brave Little Toaster and Black Cauldron in their own creepy gothic 80s kind of way. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/23 "2015-04-18T00:19:47Z")
What, no love for _Speed Buggy_? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/24 "2015-04-18T00:56:00Z")
> [@protoboard](#): > > Oh yeah, those would be exceptions. I also like Brave Little Toaster and Black Cauldron in their own creepy gothic 80s kind of way. I really like Brave Little Toaster, although I wouldn’t count it as a Disney film, even though it has Disney links. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/25 "2015-04-18T13:31:31Z")
> [@protoboard](#): > > You’re right, there is something very conservative/capitalist about the messages in Pixar movies/shorts. _Wall-E_ had a distinctly _anti_-capitalist message. Ditto _Toy Story II_. _Up_, too. _Incredibles_ doesn’t end too well for the corporate type… Me, I’m firmly in the Pixar camp, and it’s for **marshmallow** ’s 4th reason - I fucking hate musicals. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/26 "2015-04-18T15:04:17Z")
Personally, I’d probably rate _The Incredibles_ as the best animated movie ever. Yeah, Disney had a lot of classics, and _Snow White_ and _Cinderella_ and their ilk were good, but they’re mostly classics by virtue of their age. Put them up against a full stable of competitors, and they don’t hold up as well as their reputations suggest. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/27 "2015-04-18T15:35:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Personally, I’d probably rate _The Incredibles_ as the best animated movie ever. I wouldn’t even put The Incredibles in my top 3 Pixar movies. Best animate movie I’ve ever seen is **Princess Mononoke**. Not remotely appropriate for the under-10 crowd, full of terrifying violence, but the story is complex, and the politics more so: what seems initially like a pastoral, anti-industrial screed quickly gets subverted. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/28 "2015-04-18T18:42:59Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Best animate movie I’ve ever seen is **Princess Mononoke**. Not remotely appropriate for the under-10 crowd, full of terrifying violence Friend, did you ever even _see_ some of the stuff they ran on the Disney Channel in the 80s? _The Brave Little Toaster_ and _Return to Oz_ alone will fill your death and mutilation quota, real quick. And I loved 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/29 "2015-04-18T18:50:01Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Friend, did you ever even _see_ some of the stuff they ran on the Disney Channel in the 80s? _The Brave Little Toaster_ and _Return to Oz_ alone will fill your death and mutilation quota, real quick. > > And I loved 'em. Nope, missed that stuff. But I’ve seen other violent animation. My point about Mononoke isn’t that it’s good because it’s violent, though. It’s good because it’s awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/30 "2015-04-18T19:10:27Z")
I’ll agree that _Mononoke_ is definitely a strong contender for best, and on a different day, or in a different mood, I might give it the title. But I certainly haven’t seen any Disney that I’d rate higher than _The Incredibles_. And you’re the only other person besides myself I’ve met who considered _Mononoke_ the best of the Ghibli movies. ---
**Author:** ![Trancephalic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trancephalic/32/380_2.png) [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/31 "2015-04-18T19:41:57Z")
I liked Brad Bird’s Iron Giant more than his Incredibles. For one it didn’t mangle its own message. Hogarth isn’t better than his peers because of genes, but because he takes education seriously. Remy likewise, but Ratatouille isn’t handrawn. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/32 "2015-04-18T20:06:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ll agree that _Mononoke_ is definitely a strong contender for best, and on a different day, or in a different mood, I might give it the title. But I certainly haven’t seen any Disney that I’d rate higher than _The Incredibles_. > > And you’re the only other person besides myself I’ve met who considered _Mononoke_ the best of the Ghibli movies. Mononoke is my favorite of the Ghibli movies. But it would be difficult to argue that Grave of the Fireflies isn’t their best. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/33 "2015-04-18T20:17:20Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Mononoke is my favorite of the Ghibli movies. But it would be difficult to argue that Grave of the Fireflies isn’t their best. I’ve not seen Grave of the Fireflies. Some day I might be in exactly the right mood for me to watch it, but it’s been about twenty years since I heard of it, and that day hasn’t come yet. I’m happy trusting others that it’s a brilliant movie. Also, my takeaway is that I need to rewatch The Incredibles. Maybe my six-year-old will watch it with me. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/34 "2015-04-18T21:09:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’ve not seen Grave of the Fireflies. Some day I might be in exactly the right mood for me to watch it, but it’s been about twenty years since I heard of it, and that day hasn’t come yet. I’m happy trusting others that it’s a brilliant movie. Well I mean no one goes to watch Schindler’s List because it’ll be a great popcorn thrill-ride. You just watch it because every once in a while you need to do the things you should do. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/35 "2015-04-19T21:11:56Z")
If one could create some sort of rating system that took into account quality of animation, story-telling, pacing, characterization, voice talent, music…and adjust for generational differences (in general, 1930s movies are a whole different animal from 1990’s movies): IMHO, the best of Disney Classic would rank neck-and-neck with the best of Pixar. Let’s say, Pinocchio and Toy Story 3, in a photo-finish. As we descend into the 5-20 spots, they would be Pixar and Disney Renaissance (say, Incredibles and Little Mermaid) But the bottom of the list would be full of 1970’s Disney dreck. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/36 "2015-04-19T21:20:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Bowel cancer is better than most of the Disney films made between 1970 and 1988. I’ll second that motion. But I will put the early Disney above Pixar. At least to me there seems something more artistic, more finished and human, to the earlier stuff. ---
**Author:** ![protoboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@protoboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/protoboard)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/37 "2015-04-20T00:43:44Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > I’ll second that motion. But I will put the early Disney above Pixar. At least to me there seems something more artistic, more finished and human, to the earlier stuff. I agree. I think the 90s Disney deserves credit where it’s due too, and a few later ones like Emperor’s New Groove, Tangled, and Lilo and Stitch. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/38 "2015-04-20T03:44:49Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Mononoke is my favorite of the Ghibli movies. But it would be difficult to argue that Grave of the Fireflies isn’t their best. Another vote for Mononoke, but then my next two favorites are Pom Poko and Porco Rosso, so a little off the mainstream. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/39 "2015-04-20T13:49:55Z")
I have to rate the best Pixar films above any other animated films on several fronts: Emotional power: _When Someone Loved Me_ from _Toy Story 2_, and Joan Cusack’s brilliant voice acting as Jesse. After the montage to the song, when Woody says “Jesse…I didn’t know” Jesse’s reply of “Just go” gives me a lump in my throat. In the same way, When Mr. Incredible thinks his family has been killed, and asks Syndrome “What more can you do to me?” That is not just good acting for an animated film, it’s great acting period. But they can break your heart without a word, like the montage of the life of the couple in _Up_. One other thing: I’m a snob about animation. And no, not one single piece of anime qualifies as good animation. Their inability to learn how to use a simple dope sheet to animate to spoken words ruins the entire category. Come on! People have been doing this since _Steamboat Willie_! I saw _Spirited Away_ in both English and Japanese and they didn’t have lip sync in either language! People who praise anime without acknowledging this flaw have little credibility. I really think there are people growing up with anime who have never seen any classic animation, or have so assimilated the bizarre aspects of the style that they think everything should look like that - insanely low frame rates, limited walk cycles, bizarre mouth positions, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883/40 "2015-04-20T14:17:33Z")
It’s a different aesthetic, not a worse one. A proponent of anime could just as easily slam Western animation over the low quality or detail of the backgrounds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-pixar-better-than-classic-disney/717883.md?page=3)