# Is plastic surgery cheating? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 31, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902 "2019-07-31T00:10:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/21 "2019-07-31T03:32:12Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Generally I couldn’t care less what surgery people do, with the exception that it seems to me that most Kpop performers who’ve had plastic surgery seem to be doing so in order to make themselves look more European, which is just sad (and not necessary more attractive). I’ve heard the argument that most Koreans (and Japanese and Chinese) who have plastic surgery are trying to look European and IMO think it’s a fallacy. Yes, Kpop idols and celebrities have a certain look, but it’s distinctly Korean if you’re familiar with other Asians such as Japanese, Chinese, Thai, etc. None of the traits they typically go for, double eyelids, smaller, taller nose, more angled chin are distinctly European. There are native Koreans with some or all of those traits. Blonde and red hair may be influenced by Europeans, but again, in no way does having colored hair make a Korean look more European. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/22 "2019-07-31T03:43:20Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Cheating who out of what? From my OP: “I used to be vehemently opposed to elective plastic surgery, believing people should be happy with the body and face they where born with. Especially if you’re having children and are unaware of your partner’s true genetic makeup. I’ve often said that with my luck, I could marry Miss America and my daughters would take 100% after me!” If I married someone who had extensive plastic surgery and didn’t tell me, I’d feel cheated because I believe in 100% honesty with someone I’m in a relationship with as that would leave doubts about what else I’ve been lied to about. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/23 "2019-07-31T03:47:58Z")
So you’re worried about someone not disclosing plastic surgery, or you’re under the impression that someone having plastic surgery - disclosed or not - is probably a habitual liar? And like…if someone has a boob job, and your hypothetical future daughter might not have the same bazongas you married mom for, that is a problem for you? ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/24 "2019-07-31T03:52:30Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > I’ve heard the argument that most Koreans (and Japanese and Chinese) who have plastic surgery are trying to look European and IMO think it’s a fallacy. Yes, Kpop idols and celebrities have a certain look, but it’s distinctly Korean if you’re familiar with other Asians such as Japanese, Chinese, Thai, etc. > > None of the traits they typically go for, double eyelids, smaller, taller nose, more angled chin are distinctly European. There are native Koreans with some or all of those traits. Blonde and red hair may be influenced by Europeans, but again, in no way does having colored hair make a Korean look more European. Look at these before and after photo of Irene and Seulgi from Red Velvet and point out to me what’s European about their plastic surgery choices. [https://www.allkpop.com/forum/threads/red-velvet-plastic-surgery.252457/](https://www.allkpop.com/forum/threads/red-velvet-plastic-surgery.252457/). BTW, Wendy is half Canadian and Irene is the one who changed my mind about being completely opposed to plastic surgery since her operations have cleanly defined what Korean beauty had. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/25 "2019-07-31T04:00:25Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > So you’re worried about someone not disclosing plastic surgery, or you’re under the impression that someone having plastic surgery - disclosed or not - is probably a habitual liar? > > And like…if someone has a boob job, and your hypothetical future daughter might not have the same bazongas you married mom for, that is a problem for you? Not worried, but disappointed if she (or it may be he) didn’t feel comfortable enough to be completely truthful. As I stated, for me a heartfelt, loving relationship requires 100% disclosure from both parties. The same thought process applies to elective breast augmentation. Don’t feel comfortable enough to tell me about it. Okay, what else aren’t you telling me? Call me cynical, but I’ve been lied to by women too many times (though it never involved plastic surgery), and while it didn’t end our relationship/friendship immediately, it was a factor in the breakup. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/26 "2019-07-31T07:32:01Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > what’s European about their plastic surgery choices. [ Just about all of it. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/27 "2019-07-31T07:53:07Z")
Not cheating, but in the case of lip-augmentation, clearly stupid and oftentimes repulsively ugly. Everything else I’m cool with, even though I’m too old and lazy now to actually get anything done. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/28 "2019-07-31T08:01:04Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > Not worried, but disappointed if she (or it may be he). That’s some significant surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/29 "2019-07-31T12:14:37Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I think that telling other people what they should do with their own bodies is gross and controlling, and find the idea that you get to decide how they should feel about any issues with their own bodies is simply absurd. This sums up my opinion about the OP quite nicely. Thanks, **Pan**! ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/30 "2019-07-31T15:22:32Z")
I don’t think elective plastic surgery is necessarily “cheating,” but it can be indicative of an unhealthy attitude in the individual or society. But if it has to do with some contest or activity which is **specifically about outward beauty** - say a beauty pageant, competition or some modeling job, then I think elective plastic surgery is most definitely cheating, just like how taking steroids/PEDs is cheating for sports athletes. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/31 "2019-07-31T15:38:16Z")
If you can afford to do it, and want to, go for it. There are many “artificial” things you can do to look more attractive, plastic surgery is just on the extreme end. Do I think Tom Cruise is getting jobs a typical 57 year old wouldn’t get? Absolutely. But he paid for it. I don’t think that’s unfair. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/32 "2019-07-31T16:03:56Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > A while back, on a Korean variety show, when asked if she was always so pretty\*, she replied “Yes” and said that all the boys in high school were after here. I was immediately attracted to her and began to search out her movie and TV dramas. > > \*Note: They didn’t ask if she had plastic surgery. > > A few weeks later, a news story broke with her high school picture (she looked average at best) and she definitely had a good bit of plastic surgery. I haven’t gotten around to watching her movies and drams because I felt cheated. I would have been okay if she openly admitted to have plastic surgery, but unless I’m missing something, I don’t see boys lining after her. > > To be fair, there were rumors before that she had plastic surgery (just about every Korean celebrity is suspect) and the high school pic could be fake (though never refuted). But people, please just be honest as it’s a plus to your personality score! During my brief dive into KPOP i found that asking about natural beauty is their code for if a performer has had plastic surgery. Plastic surgery in Korea is very popular and almost de rigeur for pop idols. I have no opinion on whether it is cheating but think that some people need to be more careful about it since it has turned beautiful women like Dolly Parton, Meg Ryan, and Lisa Rinna into hard to look at. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/33 "2019-07-31T17:06:54Z")
Not plastic surgery related, but makeup “cheating” and one of my favorites TV moments ever! Back when country singer Tanya Tucker first moved to glamming it up, way too much makeup and spandex pants, she appeared on an awards show and played up big time to the cameras. After she was done, the announcers brought on natural faced beauty Emmylou Harris with “Country’s Miss America, Emmylou Harris!”. The camera cut [or panned] to Tucker and the look on her face was priceless! There’s no doubt in my mind that both the announcers and camera director were fed up with Tucker! ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/34 "2019-07-31T17:25:19Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > During my brief dive into KPOP i found that asking about natural beauty is their code for if a performer has had plastic surgery. > Plastic surgery in Korea is very popular and almost de rigeur for pop idols. > > I have no opinion on whether it is cheating but think that some people need to be more careful about it since it has turned beautiful women like Dolly Parton, Meg Ryan, and Lisa Rinna into hard to look at. Yes, “Were you always a natural beauty?” is definitely the code for “Did you have plastic surgery?”. One singer who obviously recently did something to her nose replied, “I take care [of my visuals] little by little.” I accept and respect that. Not cheating in my book! Edit: BTW, I thought she completely ruined her unique beauty [actually her younger sister could be her twin] with the nose job, which was really obvious when she first had it, but I’ve gotten used to it. Still like her original look though. [If anyone is curious, I’m talking about Son Na Eun of APink.] ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/35 "2019-07-31T17:38:06Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > From my OP: > > “I used to be vehemently opposed to elective plastic surgery, believing people should be happy with the body and face they where born with. Especially if you’re having children and are unaware of your partner’s true genetic makeup. I’ve often said that with my luck, I could marry Miss America and my daughters would take 100% after me!” > > If I married someone who had extensive plastic surgery and didn’t tell me, I’d feel cheated because I believe in 100% honesty with someone I’m in a relationship with as that would leave doubts about what else I’ve been lied to about. > [@lingyi](#): > > Braces are fine as they don’t disguise the person’s genetic make up. If the reason you’re concerned about womens’ appearances is that you’re trying to do genetic engineering on your kids, that’s pretty messed up, in my humble opinion. I mean, I get worrying about partner genetics to avoid horrible genetic diseases, but blowing off a charming lady because “I’m sorry, you seem to have large nose genes and _that cannot stand_” seems like the wrong approach to me. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/36 "2019-07-31T17:54:00Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > Not plastic surgery related, but makeup “cheating” and one of my favorites TV moments ever! > > Back when country singer Tanya Tucker first moved to glamming it up, way too much makeup and spandex pants, she appeared on an awards show and played up big time to the cameras. After she was done, the announcers brought on natural faced beauty Emmylou Harris with “Country’s Miss America, Emmylou Harris!”. The camera cut [or panned] to Tucker and the look on her face was priceless! There’s no doubt in my mind that both the announcers and camera director were fed up with Tucker! When guys see a “natural faced” pretty woman, they often conclude she is not wearing any make-up. But frequently she is. Just FYI. Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/37 "2019-07-31T18:26:07Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > So you’re worried about someone not disclosing plastic surgery, or you’re under the impression that someone having plastic surgery - disclosed or not - is probably a habitual liar? > > And like…if someone has a boob job, and your hypothetical future daughter might not have the same bazongas you married mom for, that is a problem for you? > [@lingyi](#): > > Not worried, but disappointed if she (or it may be he) didn’t feel comfortable enough to be completely truthful. As I stated, for me a heartfelt, loving relationship requires 100% disclosure from both parties. Wait, ZipperJJ’s question was about “plastic surgery - disclosed **or not** ”. You ignored that and only answered the case where it was undisclosed. I’m actually totally confused now about what you’re asking. Your OP didn’t mention disclosing plastic surgery, only about whether having it done at all is “cheating”. If someone has plastic surgery and tells everyone about it, is that more acceptable to you than if they keep it a secret? Is it the surgery you object to, or the lying about it, or both? I once dated a woman who had breast implants. She told me about it on our third date, before we’d even made out. Was it totally ok then because she told me about it? I’ve got to say, the repeated references to “genetic makeup” are pretty creepy. What are you getting at? Do you pick partners based on some kind of eugenics theory about what kind of children you will have with them? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/38 "2019-07-31T21:20:15Z")
Plastic surgery is not cheating. But I don’t even think steroids are cheating. Anymore than makeup and high heels, or helmets and baseball gloves. Whatever you can do to get ahead in life is fair game, so long as you aren’t hurting anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/39 "2019-07-31T21:35:32Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Plastic surgery is not cheating. But I don’t even think steroids are cheating. Anymore than makeup and high heels, or helmets and baseball gloves. Whatever you can do to get ahead in life is fair game, so long as you aren’t hurting anyone else. Steroids are certainly cheating if they’re against the rules. That’s what cheating is - it’s covertly breaking the rules in an attempt to gain an advantage. (It’s not really about who’s being hurt - you have to be pretty dramatic to injure somebody while playing Candyland, but cheating is much easier.) It’s probably worth noting that there’s no rule against plastic surgery. Well, unless you’re engaged in some sort of competition where there _is_ a rule against it, like some sort of particularly picky beauty contest maybe. I suppose the OP could be interpreted as the OP _declaring_ a rule against plastic surgery, in the little dating game he’s playing in his head. In which case the rest of the thread is everyone else telling him they’re not playing his game. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902/40 "2019-07-31T22:56:00Z")
Is plastic surgery cheating? Hang on, let me check the rule book. Oh, wait… there isn’t one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-plastic-surgery-cheating/837902.md?page=3)