# Is Polygamy Really Wrong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 27, 2012, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440 "2012-06-27T09:03:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/21 "2012-06-27T13:53:26Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Then lets see real-life examples of relationships like this that work. There were lots of examples of gay couples in stable, long-term relationships long before anyone even began to talk about gay marriage being legally sanctioned. > > Similarly, if polyamorous relationships can create stable, viable family units that don’t oppress the women involved, let’s see some evidence of that such family units actually do exist in significant numbers. Then we can start talking about whether it’s desirable to expand marriage laws to encompass them. But there’s no point in fighting to expand marriage laws to accommodate an idealized theoretical construct. We’re not moving toward gay marriage because, \*hypothetically \*a gay couple \*might \*form a long-term stable bond. We’re doing it because in reality there are huge numbers of gay couples who have. Changing the laws is just recognizing the reality of a situation that already exists. Geez, have you never seen Big Love??? 🙂 As long as polygamy is a punishable offense, you’ll never see those examples. Hmm… wait. It’s only an offense when there’s a marriage, right? And the marriages aren’t legal… so how do they ever get anyone for polygamy? (I’m not talking about a bigamy situation where one partner gets legally married to more than one.) ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/22 "2012-06-27T14:01:05Z")
If you can find _ **any women** _ who think polygamy would be great for them personally, who aren’t saying that out of powerlessness and poverty, then you have a case. Otherwise, it’s just the same old thing men have always wanted, that women have had to accept. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/23 "2012-06-27T14:27:24Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > If you can find _ **any women** _ who think polygamy would be great for them personally, who aren’t saying that out of powerlessness and poverty, then you have a case. Otherwise, it’s just the same old thing men have always wanted, that women have had to accept. You’re thinking of poly_gyny_, which is a specific subset of polygamy. OK, so historically polygamy has mostly been synonymous with it for various reasons (property rights & heirlooms mostly). But I don’t see any particular reason why, if we’re considering polygamy today as modern enlightened apes, we couldn’t consider polyandry just as valid (or any combination of x husbands, y wives e.g. the family units described in[_Courtship Rite_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtship_Rite)) ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/24 "2012-06-27T14:43:12Z")
> [@tapu](#): > > My point is that when polygamy is illegal, its practice goes underground. Polygamists have no regulation and no rights then, neither by society or law. They can’t go to a counselor or a lawyer with any problems–they’ll go to jail. It’s the illegality that allows the abuse, brainwashing, and imprisoning to go on. Before the extent of domestic abuse in the world came to light, and laws and centers were put into place, it was a lot easier to beat your wife and get away with it. It’s not really underground, though. The crime of polygamy is trying to get more than one _legally-recognized_ marriage, whereas the polygamist groups are married to their wives past #1 in the eyes of God only. It’s not the illegality that leads to these groups being secretive and insular, but their need to control their members. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/25 "2012-06-27T14:52:32Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > If you can find _ **any women** _ who think polygamy would be great for them personally, who aren’t saying that out of powerlessness and poverty, then you have a case. Otherwise, it’s just the same old thing men have always wanted, that women have had to accept. I guess you’ve never seen _Sister Wives_. They claim they appreciate a part time husband over a full time husband. That sort of destroys your powerlessness and poverty argument. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/26 "2012-06-27T14:53:58Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > You’re thinking of poly_gyny_, which is a specific subset of polygamy. OK, so historically polygamy has mostly been synonymous with it for various reasons (property rights & heirlooms mostly). > But I don’t see any particular reason why, if we’re considering polygamy today as modern enlightened apes, we couldn’t consider polyandry just as valid (or any combination of x husbands, y wives e.g. the family units described in[_Courtship Rite_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtship_Rite)) My guess is, if power and wealth was completely equally distributed between the sexes, and there were no strictures upon polygamy, it would be an occasionally advantageous combo for a small subset of people, only. Much more common would be serial monogamy. You know, like now. The reason is basically jealousy. Unless one or more persons in the group is unusually non-possessive or low-needs, there would be constant friction. The way polyGYNY worked is that women were little different than slaves. Put it this way: can you easily imagine happily sharing your wife with three or four other men who live in the same house? If not, there’s your answer. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/27 "2012-06-27T14:54:27Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > I dont have a cite, but I believe it was the Catholic Church who defined monogamy. If I remember correctly, it was because the rich were getting all the women. To spread out the gene pool, as it were, they decided 1 wife per Christian male. I have over simplified the issue, but that was the gist of it. I suspect that Christianity was doing nothing more than enforcing the cultural mores of the time without any consideration for wealth distribution and, certainly, no interest in a broader gene pool. Christianity developed and flourished under Roman law which did not permit polygamy and the Greek states had a tradition of not practicing polygamy even before Roman conquest. Judaism, from which Christianity had originally sprung, held an ideal of monogamy, but permitted polygyny, so while several Patriarchs and kings in the bible were polygynous, the moral statements regarding marriage throughout scripture always spoke of a monogamous union. With that background, expanding into a society in which monogamy was already the norm, both in culture and law, Christianity simply carried on the tradition in which it had come to be. (Rome tended to not interfere with local laws, so polygamy was permitted under those statutes in conquered lands, but anyone living under direct Roman law was going to be monogamous. In Roman society, even concubines were expected to live separately from the husband, more like mistresses than secondary wives.) ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/28 "2012-06-27T14:55:52Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > It’s not really underground, though. The crime of polygamy is trying to get more than one _legally-recognized_ marriage, whereas the polygamist groups are married to their wives past #1 in the eyes of God only. It’s not the illegality that leads to these groups being secretive and insular, but their need to control their members. Hmm… Interesting take. I’ll have to look into that. I did just read that polygamy is not defined only as 2 or more legal marriages, but that it can just be “cohabiting as one family, with multiple partners.” Wow, that threw me. I think I might have done that once! ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/29 "2012-06-27T14:57:01Z")
> [@tapu](#): > > Hmm… wait. It’s only an offense when there’s a marriage, right? And the marriages aren’t legal… so how do they ever get anyone for polygamy? (I’m not talking about a bigamy situation where one partner gets legally married to more than one.) I don’t think anyone does get arrested for polygamy anymore. Usually polygamists for welfare fraud or statutory rape or the like. So far as I know, there isn’t really anything stopping you from getting a few (consensual) sister-wives and setting up yourselves as a polygamous family. You won’t get the legal benefits of marriage, but the FBI won’t come bursting in your door either. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/30 "2012-06-27T14:59:43Z")
Yeah, I don’t think anyone has actually been prosecuted for polygamy in the US since the early days of Utah statehood. People like Warren Jeffs get prosecuted for rape and kidnapping and other crimes they commit in the process of running their groups, but not for the polygamy itself. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/31 "2012-06-27T14:59:59Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > From a legal standpoint it seems like polygamy would be quite a headache when it came … what to do with the children. If they’re girls, marry them off when they’re 15. If they’re boys, find some excuse to get rid of them when they’re 15. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/32 "2012-06-27T16:08:06Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Yeah, I don’t think anyone has actually been prosecuted for polygamy in the US since the early days of Utah statehood. People like Warren Jeffs get prosecuted for rape and kidnapping and other crimes they commit in the process of running their groups, but not for the polygamy itself. Agreed. Which I always find interesting, as even living as a family with more than one spouse is against state law in Utah, though it never seems to be prosecuted or acted upon. Go figure. The problem with modern Polygamy in the public eye is that it is associated with young girls (14,15, 13, whever puberty kicks in really) being forced to marry older men with no say in the situation. This is wrong. However, if my wife and I wanted to move a woman in with us and act as if we were all 3 married, with equality and love, there is no problem. And there are a lot of folks living like this (though often not, in my experience, without a lot of drama and weirdness… the fault of the people, not the circumstances). The model is there, and lawyers are paid exactly to figure out the social issues that a 3 way (or more) divorce would create. Let them figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/33 "2012-06-27T16:22:39Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > If you can find _ **any women** _ who think polygamy would be great for them personally, who aren’t saying that out of powerlessness and poverty, then you have a case. Otherwise, it’s just the same old thing men have always wanted, that women have had to accept. \ In the past I had lived with 2 men at a time, and once with another couple. I could do with a second husband or second wife. I know mrAru would have no issues with it either, we have discussed it at a number of times, but when he was military it would have seriously fucked his career, and now it would screw with his ability to keep a job even without the need to keep a security clearance. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/34 "2012-06-27T16:23:33Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Then lets see real-life examples of relationships like this that work. There were lots of examples of gay couples in stable, long-term relationships long before anyone even began to talk about gay marriage being legally sanctioned. My wife and I have been married for 11 years. I’ve been with my girlfriend for 3 and she’s been with her boyfriend for a year and a half. We’ve also had some more casual dates and short term relationships in that time frame as well. We don’t live together, but my girlfriend is at our house a little under half the time, and she is like a second mom (or maybe more like a beloved aunt) to my 5 year old son. It’s not actually a marriage, but it is polyamory and it works for us. I personally don’t have any desire to “make it official”, but if someone else does, why should we stop them? However, the “bureaucratic nightmare” argument is pretty powerful. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/35 "2012-06-27T16:38:19Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > My wife and I have been married for 11 years. I’ve been with my girlfriend for 3 and she’s been with her boyfriend for a year and a half. We’ve also had some more casual dates and short term relationships in that time frame as well. > > We don’t live together, but my girlfriend is at our house a little under half the time, and she is like a second mom (or maybe more like a beloved aunt) to my 5 year old son. > > It’s not actually a marriage, but it is polyamory and it works for us. I personally don’t have any desire to “make it official”, but if someone else does, why should we stop them? However, the “bureaucratic nightmare” argument is pretty powerful. I’ll add in another data point. **Nashiitashii** and I are married, and maintain a semi-open marriage. We occasionally have a third partner, and we could see making a person permanent, should the fit be good enough. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/36 "2012-06-27T16:52:56Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > The OP really needs to clarify their position. The question is simply too broad to answer adequately. Certainly in historical context polygamous relationships have allowed abuses of power, but then so have monogamous ones. In and of itself there is no reason that a balanced relationship should be any more ethically suspect simply because it involves multiple partners. If it’s not too late to reply, I mean polygamy _per se_. That includes polygyny, polyandry and everything in-between:). ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/37 "2012-06-27T16:55:02Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > My wife and I have been married for 11 years. I’ve been with my girlfriend for 3 and she’s been with her boyfriend for a year and a half. We’ve also had some more casual dates and short term relationships in that time frame as well. > > We don’t live together, but my girlfriend is at our house a little under half the time, and she is like a second mom (or maybe more like a beloved aunt) to my 5 year old son. > > It’s not actually a marriage, but it is polyamory and it works for us. I personally don’t have any desire to “make it official”, but if someone else does, why should we stop them? However, the “bureaucratic nightmare” argument is pretty powerful. What does your wife think of that setup? I’ve always been curious how these relationships stay together. People tend to not like sharing with others. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/38 "2012-06-27T17:04:04Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > If you can find _ **any women** _ who think polygamy would be great for them personally, who aren’t saying that out of powerlessness and poverty, then you have a case. Otherwise, it’s just the same old thing men have always wanted, that women have had to accept. Er, meet my wife, who is quite happy with her boyfriend. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/39 "2012-06-27T17:11:04Z")
> [@FixMyIgnorance](#): > > People tend to not like sharing with others. I find that’s much less universal than is typically assumed. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440/40 "2012-06-27T17:18:38Z")
> [@FixMyIgnorance](#): > > I’ve always been curious how these relationships stay together. People tend to not like sharing with others. I’ve never been in one, but I have friends who are in a long-term poly (trio) marriage, and they seem to be fine with it. I think a key part is that people **DO** like sharing with others, when those others are people they personally know and care about. As a trivial analogy, you’d be pretty pissed off if somebody told you you had to give half your sandwich to a random stranger, but you would quite happily give half your sandwich to a beloved family member. Not that a spouse is a sandwich, but you know what I mean. The poly people I’ve known aren’t thinking of their sex-partner-spouse(s) as “mine” and their non-sex-partner-spouse(s) as “rivals”, which is the mindset you seem to be assuming. They’re not just a bunch of individuals competing with each other for the chance to be part of a couple. Rather, they see themselves as in a close relationship with **all** their spouses, so the happiness of **all** the various couple arrangements in the marriage is important and gratifying to them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-polygamy-really-wrong/626440.md?page=3)