Cite? My experience in the poly community says otherwise, “in the world as it is today” and outside of the patriarchial fringe religious groups that have dominated the issue but do not make up the bulk of the poly population. What I see most commonly is that Jack and Jill are a couple and each of them has one, two, or more other partners, or various other combinations of male and female partners similar to the Poly in Pictures comics I posted links to.
What I DON’T see is a lot of individuals with a “harem” of partners of the opposite sex, and, as has already been pointed out, those who do attempt to gather a group of partners who are not allowed to have their own extracurricular relationships are generally looked down on by the rest of the community. It is very far from the norm.
As has been pointed out, this isn’t what happens in extant polyamorous communities. Hell, it only happens to a very limited extent among the kind of rich people who are inclined to flout society’s conventions anyway, and when they get caught at it, well, look at what happened to ol’ Tiger.
You don’t know any relationship where the woman has cheated/taken a lover, or where both parties have cheated on each other? Same concept, but without the lying.
You all (monogamists) keep saying that. But those of us who are actually in the poly population see that it’s not the case.
Your statements that “one man/multiple women” will be the norm is speculation about what might happen, or what happened historically within very strict patriarchal religious scenarios. Our refutation is based on what’s actually happening right here in the real, modern world where women have independence and autonomy that was not historically available. Believe what you want, feel what you want, it doesn’t make it true.
It’s also a very hetero way of looking at it. Many of the poly relationships I know of involve people who are bi.. In one case it was a bi woman, her straight husband, and the bi woman’s girlfriend who was a “third spouse” but wasn’t attracted to the guy (she was bi herself and took other boyfriends and girlfriends, but there was never any sexual relationship between her and husband, just between her and wife.)
Here you have a guy who from the outside is living the poly dream of two hot chicks… The reality of the relationship was not that.
This is true, though my husband and I are both hetero, so I tend not to think of it in those terms. We’re unlikely to both be involved with the same person in any case. But yes, I have seen a lot of bi people of both sexes in the poly community.
How do you mean? Legally? Well, since a man may not marry two women, then the question is moot. In the poly community as it is today, there’s no single answer. I guess it would depend largely on the nature of the relationship between the women.
I’m straight, and so is my wife. If I had a relationship with a woman other than her, which I currently do not, there would be no romantic relationship between them.
A] If I was in the old West, with a group of settlers. Settled a location with several families, and then something happened to the other adult males and I was left alone. Someone has to make more kids with all the widows, to keep the crops and livestock tended, so everyone can survive.
B] If my wife could not bear children, it might necessitate a compromise to find one that can, while still having the original wife, all about having kids to help tend farm.
In both of the situations it means more kids to tend farm, but it doesn’t have to be a marriage to more than one person either.
If 3 CONSENTING ADULTS want to enter a contract of marriage that’s also ok with me, as long as no extra benefits/tax breaks apply.
Any more than that, your pushing my bullshit buttons. I’m looking at you Utah. :rolleyes:
Well, in the world as it is right now, I think two consenting adults is pretty much the limit for legal marriage. I’m not sure why you’d say three is your limit (as opposed to four, or five, or…), but in any case, most poly relationships don’t really work that way. If my wife had another relationship, I’d not consider myself “married” to him. He’d be her partner, not mine.
The Utah thing has been addressed upthread. I don’t know how many poly people have to show up to say “No, poly relationships are not about men acquiring harems” before people who know nothing about it will actually accept that we know what we’re talking about, but hell, I guess I’ll keep trying.
That is of course how it works when she can’t legally marry him. I think some people in this thread are confusing open marriages with poly marriages. If your wife was legally allowed to marry someone else, it may not matter if you consider yourself married or not. If, for example, your wife’s husband racks up 500K, she would be just as on the hook for that as if you did it. So how would that work in relationship to you? That kind of issue needs to be worked out to legalize poly marriages. Which has no real bearing on their morality.
Serious question: Does anyone have any statistics about the demographics of the current poly populations in any western democracy? All we have in this thread so far is anecdotes and historical examples.
True. There would be legal logistics involving financial liability, custody of children, etc. The most feasible way I can see to manage such things would be to have contracts drawn up specific to the relationships in question. There isn’t likely to be a “one size fits all” arrangement that fits every poly gathering. But if my husband and my other partner(s) didn’t consider themselves partnered to each other, that would be reflected in the contractural liability – I might be on the hook for their financial shenanigans, but he wouldn’t.
What would you accept as “nonanecdotal” if the testimony of actual poly people doesn’t count? Probably the only way to get a feeling for the number of poly people would be to look at the online communities, but that wouldn’t cover those who don’t participate in such things. Currently, there’s not an option on the census for more than one partnership per person in the household, so there’s no easy way to get a head count. And considering the animosity and scorn so often directed at such relationships, there are probably quite a few in the closet.
Serious answer: for whatever reason (but given the timing when it became a big deal, likely a result of the TV series “Sister Wives” and “Big Love”), a disproportionate number of people on the online poly community I’m most familiar with have developed a near-pathological fear of even the most innocuous survey studies of the community when conducted by anyone with any academic or government credentials at all. I don’t think good non-anecdotal data is likely to be extant or forthcoming for a while.
There would certainly be problems, and right now I’m inclined to say legal recognition of poly relationships isn’t really a can of worms I’d be inclined to open. As you say, this doesn’t have much bearing on whether or not such relationships are right or wrong.
Dunkelheit and Zeriel covered this one. There likely isn’t much data since there’s no easy way to collect it anonymously and many poly folks can do without the suspicion, ridicule and hostility. The last thing we need is a “the poly men are stealing all our women!” campaign breaking out. Still, if (outside of LDS type circles) there are guys with harems all over the place, they’re hiding remarkably well. And even if I were inclined to acquire one of my own, I would expect some difficulty in persuading 21st century women that I should be allowed to boff anyone I like while they stay at home and iron my shirts.
Strassia does bring up an excellent point regarding polyamorous households and any possible law that deals with them. I can’t think of any way that the typical poly relationships that I see today would make any sense whatsoever legally in community property states–you’d have to have individual spousal property for them to not be a legal and/or financial nightmare in situations like the one he describes.
Harems? Well, no. But there are the weird-not-quite-LDS dudes, the middle eastern shieks & what-not and of course Hugh Hefner.
My poly friends are all in trios. No harems. Of those I know, 2 women one male outnumber the 2 guys one female by 4-1. Well, make that 4-0 as the last 2guys and one woman poly relationship I knew just had one of the guys pass away. (and by those I mean I know exactly five households like that. Plus a few with several guys, several woman all living together in a sorta commune deal, which I guess is technically “poly” and of those two, in both cases there’s one more guy).
However, even if we say it’s 60/40 in the open poly community, those weird-not-quite-LDS dudes, the middle eastern shieks & what-not do put the numbers heavily down into the more multiple female groupings.
But certainly, I personally know no “harems”. (Well, I met Hef once, but…)
Most of the poly people I know personally, as well as most of the ones I’ve encountered online, are in pairings where both partners have one or more extracurricular partners, who may or may not have other partners themselves. So, a male-female couple where the male has one or more partners and the female has one or more partners, and their partners may have one or more partners, of varying genders depending on the sexuality of the people involved. I don’t know that many exclusive trios with no metamours.
My own situation is more likely to have me with multiple partners than my husband (PaulParkhead FYI), just based on personal preference and levels of neediness. Not that he’s not allowed to, it’s just that I’m more likely at this point to find someone local and exert the effort of cultivating another relationship. So far, I’ve been the only one in our relationship to have extracurricular “friends with benefits” (well, “exes with benefits” is probably more accurate), but they’re all oceans away at this point, so there are no metamours currently in our relationship. I could probably get a lot of casual sex if that’s what I wanted, but it’s not – I’d prefer a committed relationship, so it might be a while before someone appropriate comes along. I do know a lot of poly people locally, though, so it’s possible that I’ll end up with someone who already has other partners themselves.
We’re unlikely to both be involved with the same person in any case. But yes, I have seen a lot of bi people of both sexes in the poly community.