# Is porn degrading the woman's image? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 27, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187 "2012-04-27T22:32:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/61 "2012-04-30T00:23:25Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > People…I’m not saying that watching porn makes you bitch slap your girlfriend and demand that she lick your anus. I’m saying that it skews, however slightly, the perception of how women should behave sexually. That’s all. I’m not against porn, but I do understand the arguments about how some people are affected adversely by watching it. It’s sort of like alcohol; most people can handle it responsibly, but some can’t and there is that lurking danger there. I agree with this: I know that we all tend to see our own youth as “the right way”, but there was some sense to the way one’s awareness of sexuality used to slowly develop: first, catalogs and glimpses in mainstream movies. Then mildly dirty magazines and late night cable. You likely didn’t see the really dirty stuff until you yourself were sexually active and had some reality to test it against. Now, I don’t know if the mild stuff even exists. Boys feeling the first itches in their britches and furtively googling are as likely to find images of tiny little waif girl-women getting sealed airtight by an endless string of hulking steroid junkies as they are to find simple T&A. And call me a terrible prude, but I think the former scenario could create some odd impressions about how men and women relate sexually. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/62 "2012-04-30T00:36:25Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > And call me a terrible prude, but I think the former scenario could create some odd impressions about how men and women relate sexually. I don’t know that I’d call you a terrible prude but if your standards were devised under the context you describe, and that context changes, then presumably the standards would change. If you resist such change for the sake of your own perceptions about how men and women should relate sexually you might be a prude. I look, for example, at shows which discuss the promiscuity of our youth, as if it were a problem to be solved. I find that prudish. Though I cannot imagine my high school life in such a context, to be sure. And I’d wager I had a better experience than most in that regard. There are worse examples of, well, examples than porn about how people should behave. Most are mainstream. When was the last time you saw a car commercial without a professional driver on a closed course? Is professional wrestling destroying our kids’ ability to horse around? Don’t even get me started on war movies versus actual life in the military (nevermind in times of genuine conflict). Sure, the availability of porn means we can’t hide the kinds of sexual activities people find interesting. It’s a change, to be sure, but probably only one out of weird guilt into the light. Don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/63 "2012-04-30T01:16:49Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Well there may be some special cases like Taliban students who have never met a woman not related to them who have been exposed to Western porn, but for the most part, I think most guys know porn is a fantasy, not real. Like science fiction and other fantasies. They know the women are acting a role, however real the sex is. It’s not a difficult concept. Do you think that young teenagers for whom porn is their first exposure to sex know that it is not real? Do you think they realize that real women have hair around their vaginas? Or that most women are not begging to have anal sex, or to have you come in their faces? Or that most women do not have sex with high heels on? These are the first and most powerful images they are seeing as they come into their sexuality, and they make a lasting impression. This is where they learn what turns them on, how they should act and what they should expect from their partners. I fear that this will lead to a whole new generation of young men expecting increasing kinkiness from their female partners, which I do feel does result in the degradation of women. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/64 "2012-04-30T01:48:20Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Boys feeling the first itches in their britches and furtively googling are as likely to find images of tiny little waif girl-women getting sealed airtight by an endless string of hulking steroid junkies as they are to find simple T&A. And call me a terrible prude, but I think the former scenario could create some odd impressions about how men and women relate sexually. I agree completely, I worry about the development of young adults who are seeing scenarios as described above, and what their expectations will be. > [@jtgain](#): > > People…I’m not saying that watching porn makes you bitch slap your girlfriend and demand that she lick your anus. I’m saying that it skews, however slightly, the perception of how women should behave sexually. That’s all. I’m not against porn, but I do understand the arguments about how some people are affected adversely by watching it. It’s sort of like alcohol; most people can handle it responsibly, but some can’t and there is that lurking danger there. Speaking of which, this is a really good site about the negative effects the proliferation of easily accessible Internet porn is having: [http://yourbrainonporn.com/](http://yourbrainonporn.com/) It describes, through real life stories and scientific research, how Internet porn can become an addiction and men can become so used to seeing extreme things on the screen that they become desensitized to “normal” sex. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/65 "2012-04-30T01:53:20Z")
> [@Green\_Cymbeline](#): > > …Internet porn can become an addiction and men can become so used to seeing extreme things on the screen that they become desensitized to “normal” sex. Do they ever define what “normal” sex is? ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/66 "2012-04-30T01:56:28Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > … I’m saying that it skews, however slightly, the perception of how women should behave sexually. That’s all. … I would ask _How should women behave sexually_? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/67 "2012-04-30T01:57:34Z")
> [@Green\_Cymbeline](#): > > Do you think that young teenagers for whom porn is their first exposure to sex know that it is not real? Do you think they realize that real women have hair around their vaginas? Or that most women are not begging to have anal sex, or to have you come in their faces? Or that most women do not have sex with high heels on? These are the first and most powerful images they are seeing as they come into their sexuality, and they make a lasting impression. This is where they learn what turns them on, how they should act and what they should expect from their partners. I fear that this will lead to a whole new generation of young men expecting increasing kinkiness from their female partners, which I do feel does result in the degradation of women. As opposed to previous generations where female sexuality was placed under sever male control? Why would you assume that increasing acceptance of kink wouldn’t liberate women? ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/68 "2012-04-30T01:59:00Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > What do the men in pornography do? a lot of work for less than half the money 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/69 "2012-04-30T02:03:07Z")
> [@SnakeBabe](#): > > Do they ever define what “normal” sex is? Try this article for an explanation: [Porn-Induced Sexual Dysfunction Is a Growing Problem](http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201107/porn-induced-sexual-dysfunction-is-growing-problem) > [@](#): > > A growing number of young, healthy Internet pornography users are complaining of delayed ejaculation, inability to be turned on by real partners, and sluggish erections. > … > Desperate young men from various cultures, with different levels of education, religiosity, attitudes, values, diets, marijuana use, and personalities are seeking help. They have only two things in common: heavy use of today’s Internet porn and increasing need for more extreme material. > … > Recent behavioral addiction research suggests that the loss of libido and performance occur because heavy users are numbing their brain’s normal response to pleasure. Years of overriding the natural limits of libido with intense stimulation desensitize the user’s response to a neurochemical called dopamine. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/70 "2012-04-30T02:09:25Z")
> [@Green\_Cymbeline](#): > > Try this article for an explanation: [Porn-Induced Sexual Dysfunction Is a Growing Problem](http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201107/porn-induced-sexual-dysfunction-is-growing-problem) Ok, but consider the [positive effects of pornography](http://voices.yahoo.com/the-positive-effects-pornography-5800140.html). > [@](#): > > Dr. Neil Malamuth and Milton Diamond each conducted their own, separate studies on the use and possible effects of hardcore pornography in willing adults of both genders. Dr. Malamuth, who has argued for the negative effects of pornography in the past, actually found evidence to the contrary in his study. According to a post on the Psychology Today website, the results of Malamuth’s study indicated that, “respondants construed the viewing of hardcore pornography as beneficial to their sex lives, their attitudes towards sex, their perceptions and attitudes towards the opposite sex, towards life in general, and over all.” This was a statistically significant fact discovered in all but one group, and it applied across genders ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/71 "2012-04-30T02:27:36Z")
> [@Green\_Cymbeline](#): > > Try this article for an explanation: [Porn-Induced Sexual Dysfunction Is a Growing Problem](http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201107/porn-induced-sexual-dysfunction-is-growing-problem) In that artice it uses this as a test - Here’s a simple test: Try to masturbate (alone) using no porn and no fantasy—only sensual touch. \* That is so not a fair test. A mans strongest sex organ is his eyes. Take that away or any mental image then make him respond to his own touch and you got a limp noodle for sure. Poor guy is doomed to failure. And for further discussion I’ll add guys often use non-nude-totally clothed pix to jerk off. If they like the girl its not uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/72 "2012-04-30T02:48:10Z")
> [@SnakeBabe](#): > > And for further discussion I’ll add guys often use non-nude-totally clothed pix to jerk off. If they like the girl its not uncommon. It’s the best first test for serious interest versus infatuation. The jerk-off test: masturbate with thoughts of the woman, and if you want to talk to her immediately after climaxing, it’s probably not mere infatuation. Since, presumably, one isn’t dating a porn star, there is a real limit to how vivid of a fantasy one can concoct about someone never seen nude (though some clothing choices may limit the utility of this method). Searching for the use of such a term is fraught with difficulties but it appears this method has been rediscovered many times. Now, if the fantasy in question involves some massive bukkake scenario then maybe we’ve got some issues with porn ruining our lives. I cannot personally speak on such matters. But I think male masturbation is a tool for stress relief in general. I notice some advocate it before a test in school, for example. (Though knowing most teens and young males, this would be happening already anyway, making it questionable advice.) A friend of mine noted that his penis was just some lever he pulled to go to sleep. If that’s really the case, I mean _really_ the case (big if), then as life becomes more stressful, men will seek to climax more to cope and therefore consume copious amounts of pornography. Which isn’t degrading to women at all, it’s just how pathetic men are. When we all upload our minds into computers we can be rid of the whole affair. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/73 "2012-04-30T03:02:28Z")
One of the issues I am most concerned about when it comes to the issue of whether porn degrades woman is the trend of a preference for hairless genitals. For the past couple of decades, porn has increasingly featured actresses with shaven or waxed genitals. Men who grew up watching this became conditioned to be attracted to bald vaginas, thus exerting pressure on women to alter the natural state of their private area to be attractive to their mates. I resent this pressure. As a 30-something woman, men my age grew up at the beginning of this trend. I have encountered many anecdotes of men saying they preferred “shaven.” Luckily my last couple of boyfriends were OK with, even had a “fetish” for, my natural state of being, but I assure you this is the exception, not the rule, amongst people of my generation and younger. I think it’s damaging both for the young men who are wired to this preference from watching porn, and for the young women who feel they have to do this to please men. From [Wiring Sexual Tastes to Hairless Genitals…Oops!](http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201201/wiring-sexual-tastes-hairless-genitalsoops) > [@](#): > > In today’s porn world, however, “shaved,” like anal sex, is de rigueur. We now hear younger men saying they will have nothing (sexual) to do with an unshaven female. What has happened? Adolescent porn users are cutting their teeth on depilated sirens. This is just when their brains are most sensitive to reward and furiously wiring their sexual arousal to associated cues—in this case, hairless genitals. This same process affects some adult viewers, too. > > A sensitive brain can wire up to a new sexual cue with a few intense orgasms. Thereafter, such a brain will respond to that cue (whether with arousal or repulsion) before the brain’s owner is even consciously aware of the cue. In short, the brain’s reward circuitry ignites a powerful reaction before the person’s frontal cortex has a chance to dismiss the cue. > … > The hairless, juvenile trend is not lost on the female partners and would-be partners of today’s heavy porn users. They still hope to turn on their cue-conditioned mates. According to a 2010 study, labia portrayed in porn protrude less than labia portrayed in medical textbooks and other sources. > > Result? Not just wax treatments, but also labia surgery to eradicate signs of sexual maturity are increasingly common. Using shaving and surgery, women are deliberately neotenizing their genitals, that is, intentionally making them look immature, juvenile. > … > You may be saying to yourself, “Oh please. I know the difference between a child and adult when I’m watching porn!” That isn’t the point. Pavlov’s dogs knew the difference between his bell and Alpo, but after a while they salivated when they heard the bell alone. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/74 "2012-04-30T03:11:03Z")
> [@SnakeBabe](#): > > > [@jtgain](#): > > > > I’m saying that it skews, however slightly, the perception of how women should behave sexually. That’s all. > > I would ask _How should women behave sexually_? I think all of us reading this thread (or at least, posting in it) are old enough and sophisticated enough to know that there isn’t any unique right answer to this question. But I think **jtgain** ’s point is that inexperienced adolescents who for the moment have much more experience of fictionalized unrealistic sexual encounters in porn than of actual sexual encounters with partners in real life are liable to get the mistaken idea that there **is** a “right answer” to this question, and that that answer is found in porn. In other words, we Dopers may be well aware that “woman having sex” != “woman resembling and behaving like a female porn character”. But now that porn is playing an increasingly large role in guys’ sexual experience, beginning at increasingly young ages, it may become more difficult for young people on average to grasp this concept. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/75 "2012-04-30T03:29:03Z")
Porn is about as “normative” as Road Runner cartoons. How many people watch those, and then try to reproduce what they’ve seen? Porn is silly; the positions are contrived, the external fertilization is inane, the fake outcries of ecstasy aren’t convincing. It’s all grossly exaggerated. It’s entertaining in that exaggeration…just like Road Runner cartoons! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/76 "2012-04-30T03:39:04Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Porn is about as “normative” as Road Runner cartoons. How many people watch those, and then try to reproduce what they’ve seen? Porn is silly; the positions are contrived, the external fertilization is inane, the fake outcries of ecstasy aren’t convincing. It’s all grossly exaggerated. That doesn’t mean that it can’t affect the expectations or requirements of porn users about what actual sex should be like. E.g., the _Psychology Today_ article quoted by **Green Cymbeline** above notes that the prevalence of depilated vulvas in porn is inclining men to expect the same thing in real-life sex partners. Sure, even the most inexperienced porn user knows objectively that porn is a staged performance. But that doesn’t mean it automatically has no impact on their attitudes toward real sex. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/77 "2012-04-30T03:51:51Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But I think **jtgain** ’s point is that inexperienced adolescents who for the moment have much more experience of fictionalized unrealistic sexual encounters in porn than of actual sexual encounters with partners in real life are liable to get the mistaken idea that there **is** a “right answer” to this question, and that that answer is found in porn. When I was an adolescent, the “right” answer was that women weren’t interested, not really. Assuming that the man wasn’t James Bond, of course. Now I suppose I’d fantasize about being a pizza delivery man. Sure women in porn are unrealistic in lots of ways. Women in the movies and on TV are also. Men in porn are damn unrealistic, if kids were so impressionable there would be an epidemic of adolescent penis length depression. Addiction is bad. But I rather suspect men watch what turns them on, and are not trained into being turned on by what they watch - there is way too much out there of different types. If the current porn is bad, what kind of porn should we be getting? Back to Man with a Maid? Vanilla sex involving a husband and wife hoping to get something happening before the baby wakes up? What would healthy porn look like? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/78 "2012-04-30T04:33:08Z")
> [@Green\_Cymbeline](#): > > Do you think that young teenagers for whom porn is their first exposure to sex know that it is not real? Do you think they realize that real women have hair around their vaginas? Or that most women are not begging to have anal sex, or to have you come in their faces? Or that most women do not have sex with high heels on? These are the first and most powerful images they are seeing as they come into their sexuality, and they make a lasting impression. This is where they learn what turns them on, how they should act and what they should expect from their partners. I fear that this will lead to a whole new generation of young men expecting increasing kinkiness from their female partners, which I do feel does result in the degradation of women. I don’t KNOW and you don’t either. My suspicion is that most young guys can figure out that there is a difference between the women in porn videos and the women they meet in real life. My suspicion is that the real key is how their parents interact. They may not want to believe that their parents have sex, but they do get their parents as a model for "this is how men and women interact in real life. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/79 "2012-04-30T04:49:14Z")
I have noticed that people younger than me(guys mostly) do have some warped ideas based on early porn viewing. Its not just women that they have warped ideas of though, themselves too they think a 12 inch penis is normal and anything less is pathetic, they are dissapointed in real sex because of the screaming squirting nonsense on the screen. Some are terrified of female pubes, terrified! Note I am not advocating any restrictions on porn, but basing your sexuality on porn is happening and is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/80 "2012-04-30T04:53:55Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > What would healthy porn look like? More normal but hot women would help, porn in the 70s and 80s had plenty of hot but real women and the variety was fun. Now all the women have had surgery and anal bleaching and bad spray on tans, not a hair follicle on their body, that is weird and doesn’t even turn me on they look like aliens. Hell a return to the stunt cocks attached to normal dudes would help too, the men in modern porn look as strange as the women. Roid cases with no body hair. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187.md?page=5)