# Is porn degrading the woman's image? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 27, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187 "2012-04-27T22:32:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/101 "2012-04-30T20:22:15Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s not natural for a penis to vibrate, nor for a man to have two (or even three) appendages. I have two major appendages each at the top and bottom of my torso, and each of those has five further appendages on the end of it. What’s unnatural about that? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/102 "2012-04-30T20:26:57Z")
> [@Green\_Cymbeline](#): > > I find this trend disturbing and directly related to modern porn viewing habits. I grew up right at the beginning of this trend. When I was in high school (early 90s), it was unheard of for a girl to shave or otherwise wax or trim her privates. Then once internet porn made its debut, many insisted their partners shave. I have heard of guys who refuse, refuse! to have sex with an unshaven woman. That is how wired these guys’ brains get. > > Here’s why it is degrading to women: because it somehow tells women that their natural state is somehow dirty or unclean, something which has to be altered in order to be acceptable to men. This is similar to the women who are frightened or repulsed by uncircumcised penises, as you noted. However, I would disagree with you that American women’s expectations about circumcised penises are largely inspired by porn conventions. Rather, I think they’re created almost entirely by the fact that most American women have most of their sexual experience with American men, the vast majority of whom are circumcised. Your expectations are conditioned by your own experience. The content of that experience, whether it’s actual sex or viewing porn, is going to profoundly affect what you assume to be “normal” or “natural” or desirable. Breast enlargement is another expectations issue here, not only in porn but in regular entertainment viewing as well. As surgically enhanced breasts become more and more standard-issue equipment for female porn stars and other performers alike, more and more men expect to see larger rounder boobs on women, and more and more women think that that’s what they need to be attractive. And never mind genital waxing, with breast augmentation surgery we’re talking **major** body modification with potentially serious health consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/103 "2012-04-30T20:52:00Z")
> [@Green\_Cymbeline](#): > > Exactly, see the following experiences: > > I’ve heard the same thing over and over, except with men above about 40 or so. > > I find this trend disturbing and directly related to modern porn viewing habits. I grew up right at the beginning of this trend. When I was in high school (early 90s), it was unheard of for a girl to shave or otherwise wax or trim her privates. Then once internet porn made its debut, many men insisted their partners shave. I have heard of guys who refuse, refuse! to have sex with an unshaven woman. That is how wired these guys’ brains get. You have a really bizarre view of male sexuality. You are trying to argue that it is very plastic and shaped by the internet but at the same time is so _wired_ that an offer of sex by a real live girl can’t change it. This is pretty counterintuitive, not to mention illogical. I admit that there are probably some very unfortunate teenage porn addicts out there. But aside from those, why do you think that internet images inform male sexuality more than an actual sex partner in the flesh? An ounce of willing is worth fifty pounds of shaved. “I have heard of guys…” sounds pretty naive, too. Perhaps you pay too much attention to bullshit. Or maybe it is just a nicer way to let a girl down easy. Refusing her because she doesn’t landscape might be softer than telling her she’s fat, unpopular, smells bad, or any one of the other completely legitimate reasons to turn down physical intimacy. What _is_ a legitimate reason to refuse a woman sex? I was in high school at around the same time. It was pretty unheard of for anyone to talk openly about pubic hair. It was also pretty unheard of for anyone to own up to being gay, either. I went to high school right outside of New York City, too. Kids seem to be more open about sexual topics in general. > [@](#): > > Here’s why it is degrading to women: because it tells women that their natural state is somehow dirty or unclean, something about their natural body which has to be altered in order to be acceptable to men. (Same goes with circumcision, but that is a whole other debate.) What exactly is anyone’s natural state? And why should this natural state be so privileged? What is so sacred about it? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/104 "2012-04-30T21:00:31Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Breast enlargement is another expectations issue here, not only in porn but in regular entertainment viewing as well. As surgically enhanced breasts become more and more standard-issue equipment for female porn stars and other performers alike, more and more men expect to see larger rounder boobs on women, and more and more women think that that’s what they need to be attractive. And never mind genital waxing, with breast augmentation surgery we’re talking **major** body modification with potentially serious health consequences. This argument would only be true in the odd case that men only saw women either in porn or during sex. Breast size is pretty easy to observe non-sexually, and most ordinary men see lots of women wearing shirts. So even the most cognitively limited man would see pretty quickly that the distributions of breast sizes in porn and in the real world are drastically different. The more augmentation you see in porn, the greater the sense that porn is completely unreal. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/105 "2012-04-30T21:11:07Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > Refusing her because she doesn’t landscape might be softer than telling her she’s fat, unpopular, smells bad, or any one of the other completely legitimate reasons to turn down physical intimacy. Why wait until she’d denuded to make that call though? Also, in terms of cunnilingus, wouldn’t it depend on whether it were shallow or deep? I mean teeth shouldn’t be involved to any degree, but regrowing hair can be irritating. I suppose the same is true of facial hair in that scenario too, to be fair. I think it’s traditional for Muslim men to shave their pubic hair under Sunan al-Fitrah, so it’s not completely novel. > [@Lemur866](#): > > You don’t have to masturbate to the first video on the first page of youporn, you can take 5 seconds to go to the “vintage” category if you want. Well, think how many complaints there’d be if a major porn company suddenly catered only to coprophilia on the main page. That’s an analogue for what other individuals are experiencing with industry trends. Those that find coprophilia degrading probably wouldn’t return to the company, as they’d be investing the profit made from other ad views or sub fees into producing more scatological material. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/106 "2012-04-30T21:12:50Z")
OTOH, there seem an ever expanding (pardon the pun) pool of women in “real” seeking out boob jobs. Are they being influenced by porn? Is popular culture merging with porn – without quite so much explicitness of course. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/107 "2012-04-30T21:32:39Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > That doesn’t mean that it can’t affect the expectations or requirements of porn users about what actual sex should be like. > > E.g., the _Psychology Today_ article quoted by **Green Cymbeline** above notes that the prevalence of depilated vulvas in porn is inclining men to expect the same thing in real-life sex partners. > > Sure, even the most inexperienced porn user knows objectively that porn is a staged performance. But that doesn’t mean it automatically has no impact on their attitudes toward real sex. Once you get into such minutiae as shaved or unshaved, it seems more like an issue of “fashion.” Yes, the media have vast influence over our fashions. I can’t think of any way to get around that. I’d far rather have people worried about shaving themselves than, say, about piercings or tattoos or breast augmentation or such things that cannot easily be reversed. I’d rather that all people be independent enough in their minds to avoid being manipulated by fashion in the first place. This, however, seems to be a fundamental flaw in human nature. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/108 "2012-04-30T21:33:19Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > You have a really bizarre view of male sexuality. > … > “I have heard of guys…” sounds pretty naive, too. Perhaps you pay too much attention to bullshit. I pay attention to, among other things, conversations about this very topic (shaved v. unshaved) on this board. And from real life. I don’t think it’s that controversial to state that younger men nowadays prefer women to be shaved or trimmed. The question is, why do they prefer it? I posit that this trend coincides with the prevalence of easily accessible Internet porn. > [@Maeglin](#): > > What exactly is anyone’s natural state? And why should this natural state be so privileged? What is so sacred about it? Again, I don’t see it as controversial to state that one’s natural state is uncut (in men) and non-shaven (in women). Why it’s sacred is that I believe no one should be pressured to modify their genitals based on what the porn industry decides is hot. > [@Maeglin](#): > > I admit that there are probably some very unfortunate teenage porn addicts out there. But aside from those, why do you think that internet images inform male sexuality more than an actual sex partner in the flesh? Because nowadays, 99 times out of 100, a male’s first exposure to female nudity and sex is from Internet porn. He will probably have at least a couple to several years on non-stop Internet porn exposure before he actually has his first real experience. And at least a few years beyond that before he’s experienced multiple partners. So what his young brain is programmed to be attracted to is already solidified, hard wired, by the time he becomes sexually active. Of course this does not apply to everyone, but I do think that some young men are going to be in for a shock when they see what a natural vagina looks like (hair and labia and different colors and all) and what natural breasts look like (specifically nipples). Just like a young woman may be surprised to learn that a natural penis has a foreskin (I know I was, but I like natural things so it was OK with me). ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/109 "2012-04-30T22:15:15Z")
> [@Green\_Cymbeline](#): > > Exactly, see the following experiences: > > I’ve heard the same thing over and over, except with men above about 40 or so. > > I find this trend disturbing and directly related to modern porn viewing habits. I grew up right at the beginning of this trend. When I was in high school (early 90s), it was unheard of for a girl to shave or otherwise wax or trim her privates. I went to high school in the early 90s and it was unheard of for a girl to not be at least partially shaved. There were jokes and rumors about one girl whose “bush was so big birds were nesting in it.” > [@](#): > > And the thing about getting hair between your teeth is bullshit because, as **grude** said, if your getting hair in your teeth you’re doing it wrong. This is bullshit unless you and the others demand that your partner only lick between your spread labia. All of my partners have insisted I licked and sucked all over the place in her genital area. > [@Green\_Cymbeline](#): > > I pay attention to, among other things, conversations about this very topic (shaved v. unshaved) on this board. And from real life. I don’t think it’s that controversial to state that younger men nowadays prefer women to be shaved or trimmed. The question is, why do they prefer it? I posit that this trend coincides with the prevalence of easily accessible Internet porn. I posit that you are just making shit up to fit the notions you want to be true. As already stated in this thread men are very visual when it comes to sex. What do you think a man might prefer to see? A general mass of hair or the actual vulva? > [@](#): > > Because nowadays, 99 times out of 100, a male’s first exposure to female nudity and sex is from Internet porn. Well worry no more. My step-brothers grew up on internet porn. I know because my step-dad has told stories proclaiming so and I caught the younger one masturbating twice. The second time was after I told him to lock the damn door if you’re going to play slap the monkey. The older one has been married for two years now. According to him his sex life is" fucking awesome". The younger finally came out as gay a year or so ago and he is now living with his boyfriend. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/110 "2012-04-30T22:20:57Z")
> [@Green\_Cymbeline](#): > > One of the issues I am most concerned about when it comes to the issue of whether porn degrades woman is the trend of a preference for hairless genitals. For the past couple of decades, porn has increasingly featured actresses with shaven or waxed genitals. Men who grew up watching this became conditioned to be attracted to bald vaginas, thus exerting pressure on women to alter the natural state of their private area to be attractive to their mates. I resent this pressure. As a 30-something woman, men my age grew up at the beginning of this trend. I have encountered many anecdotes of men saying they preferred “shaven.” Luckily my last couple of boyfriends were OK with, even had a “fetish” for, my natural state of being, but I assure you this is the exception, not the rule, amongst people of my generation and younger. I think it’s damaging both for the young men who are wired to this preference from watching porn, and for the young women who feel they have to do this to please men. > > From [Wiring Sexual Tastes to Hairless Genitals…Oops!](http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201201/wiring-sexual-tastes-hairless-genitalsoops) **Green Cymbeline** I’m not sure how researchers separate this “wiring” that they posit from the porn makers simply making what their customers want. Is the taste for shaved pubes determined by viewing porn with that feature, or is it a pre-existing desire that the porn manufacturers are simply fulfilling? Why isn’t it equally likely that the desire has always been there and is now being fulfilled thanks to the easy availability of shaving gel and sharp razors? Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/111 "2012-04-30T22:21:13Z")
You know what? A guy gets a woman in bed for the first time, he’s ready for some action, then he pulls her pants off and notices that she’s not shaved. He’s so disgusted he jumps out of bed, puts back on his clothes and goes home. Yeah, that doesn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/112 "2012-04-30T22:28:13Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > This argument would only be true in the odd case that men only saw women either in porn or during sex. 😕 Why would you think that? What people find attractive sexually is influenced by cultural expectations about beauty in general, not just about the body parts that are only visible during (real or simulated) sexual activity. There are plenty of cultures where, for example, lighter skin is typically represented as more attractive than darker skin. People in those cultures surveyed about their individual sexual tastes tend to show stronger preferences for lighter-skinned partners. And so forth and so on with other physical characteristics. A culture where popular images of female beauty are overwhelmingly weighted towards large-breasted figures is a culture where on average more men are going to describe themselves as being more sexually attracted to women with large breasts. I don’t see how that’s “odd” or unexpected in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/113 "2012-04-30T22:34:33Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > \ > > A culture where popular images of female beauty are overwhelmingly weighted towards large-breasted figures is a culture where on average more men are going to describe themselves as being more sexually attracted to women with large breasts. I don’t see how that’s “odd” or unexpected in any way. **Kimstu** Are larger breasts attractive because of culture, or is it something that has always been around? Breasts are a huge sexual cue in any culture and I would think that larger ones attract more attention. Nothing really to do with culture or porn or anything other than biology. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Backcountry\_Medic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Backcountry\_Medic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Backcountry_Medic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/114 "2012-04-30T22:46:47Z")
Yeah, it’s not like men are forcing women to shave their pubes. I believe it was mentioned on the first page the rape (i.e. forced sexual activity) has gone down while porn use has gone up. If a woman doesn’t want to shave- **don’t**. And I’m sure it will mean legions of hormonally intoxicated male teenagers will storm out of their first girlfriend’s bedrooms with swollen members since they aren’t being served their hardwired porn fantasies. Now who isn’t living in reality? I hope that every woman (or man) who is on this non-shaved ‘au natural’ kick has a large supply of pitchforks and torches, because if you are looking to counteract the appeal of ‘youth=beauty’ that you think stems from porn, you might as well burn down almost everything else related to fashion and female beauty. I would suggest an alphabetical approach. Start at 17 magazine, then hit Aveda, MaryKay, People magazine, ‘Project Runway’, Redbook, US weekly and thousands more on the way. Maybe you could blow up a botox factory. I would like to see where you are concurrently advocating wrinkles, crooked teeth, unshaved legs, hairy pits, etc- since I would hate for you to so deadset on “unnatural genital modification” while secretly supporting the unnatural modification of axillae. Shaved porn is an after-effect of what women are already doing to themselves. If anything, it came after the fact and serves more of a purpose. It can be hard to see what’s going on under a thick bush, and porn is unquestionably a visual medium. And there is nothing ‘degrading’ about it, in my experience women are shaving more and more, but I’ve never had to ask anyone to do it at my request. ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/115 "2012-04-30T22:51:35Z")
> [@Green\_Cymbeline](#): > > I pay attention to, among other things, conversations about this very topic (shaved v. unshaved) on this board. And from real life. I don’t think it’s that controversial to state that younger men nowadays prefer women to be shaved or trimmed. The question is, why do they prefer it? I posit that this trend coincides with the prevalence of easily accessible Internet porn. > Again, I don’t see it as controversial to state that one’s natural state is uncut (in men) and non-shaven (in women). How are these two equatable at all? One is a medical procedure that is done for a plethora of reasons (religious, the idea that it’s somehow more hygienic, reduces risk of STD’s (or whatever other reasons are often cited in favour of circumcision) and also medical - to solve various abnormalities etc). The other is a fashion/comfort thing and easily grows back if you don’t like it that way. Are you saying men line up for circumcisions after watching porn, thinking that women wont have sex with them if they don’t? Circumcision is usually a very early decision that the _parents_ make. The proper equation for shaving is shaving. Men can trim down there too. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/116 "2012-04-30T22:55:19Z")
> [@Testy](#): > > Are larger breasts attractive because of culture, or is it something that has always been around? Breasts are a huge sexual cue in any culture and I would think that larger ones attract more attention. Nothing really to do with culture or porn or anything other than biology. Sure, breasts appeal to (heterosexual) men on a very basic biological level. But if that were the **only** determining factor, then we wouldn’t see men in different cultures having different preferences, on average, about the most sexually attractive breast size. If it were just as simple as the heterosexual male brain being hardwired to find larger breasts more attractive, then on average men in all cultures should show an equal preference for larger breasts. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/117 "2012-04-30T23:02:00Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Sure, breasts appeal to (heterosexual) men on a very basic biological level. But if that were the **only** determining factor, then we wouldn’t see men in different cultures having different preferences, on average, about the most sexually attractive breast size. > > If it were just as simple as the heterosexual male brain being hardwired to find larger breasts more attractive, then on average men in all cultures should show an equal preference for larger breasts. **Kimstu** Are there cultures where men prefer and actively seek out smaller breasts? I haven’t heard of them. Not saying it’s impossible or anything, I am simply ignorant of them. Mind you, when I talk about larger breasts, I’m not talking about a stripper or porn star that is going for a world record on breast size. The unnaturally huge breasts are repulsive, at least to me. I do think that larger breasts (up to a point!) are a pretty universally desirable feature in women. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/118 "2012-04-30T23:51:38Z")
> [@Green\_Cymbeline](#): > > I pay attention to, among other things, conversations about this very topic (shaved v. unshaved) on this board. And from real life. I don’t think it’s that controversial to state that younger men nowadays prefer women to be shaved or trimmed. The question is, why do they prefer it? I posit that this trend coincides with the prevalence of easily accessible Internet porn. There was no internet to speak of when we were in high school. It is hard to imagine how one could make a meaningful comparison between the SDMB and _any_ high school of 1995. As for the preferences of young men today, how much time do you spend talking to 16-year old males about the kinds of vaginas they prefer? I teach undergraduates at a gigantic university and can say that I have overheard absolutely nothing to suggest that kids today prefer shaved. If this is so non-controversial, it should be trivially easy to convince reasonable people that it’s true. It’s also trivially easy to make up bogus explanations for trends that don’t exist. > [@](#): > > Again, I don’t see it as controversial to state that one’s natural state is uncut (in men) and non-shaven (in women). Why it’s sacred is that I believe no one should be pressured to modify their genitals based on what the porn industry decides is hot. How far are you going to push the conceit of the natural? Trimming fingernails and cutting hair? Eating with your utensils? Why should we be pressured to modify ourselves and our behavior about anything at all? Even assuming for a second that what you are saying is true, why is modifying ourselves because of porn any worse than doing it for some other social reason? Aside from the your rather unsubtle advocacy for male sexual control, of course. > [@](#): > > Because nowadays, 99 times out of 100, a male’s first exposure to female nudity and sex is from Internet porn. He will probably have at least a couple to several years on non-stop Internet porn exposure before he actually has his first real experience. And at least a few years beyond that before he’s experienced multiple partners. So what his young brain is programmed to be attracted to is already solidified, hard wired, by the time he becomes sexually active. This is fiction. > [@](#): > > Of course this does not apply to everyone, but I do think that some young men are going to be in for a shock when they see what a natural vagina looks like (hair and labia and different colors and all) and what natural breasts look like (specifically nipples). Just like a young woman may be surprised to learn that a natural penis has a foreskin (I know I was, but I like natural things so it was OK with me). This is romantic comedy. > [@Kimstu](#): > > 😕 Why would you think that? What people find attractive sexually is influenced by cultural expectations about beauty in general, not just about the body parts that are only visible during (real or simulated) sexual activity. Your phrase “expect to see” suggested something very different to me than you seem to mean here. Men don’t expect to see large breasts any more than they expect to be able to have sex with supermodels or porn stars. Deep down, I think even the most aggressive porn users have a pretty good idea of the sort of women they are capable of attracting and behave accordingly. No matter what they claim their preferences might be, people sort themselves by appearance. It is an open question to what degree the preferences people claim relate to their actual decisions. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/119 "2012-05-01T01:21:35Z")
Rarely is the question asked is our woman degraded? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/120 "2012-05-01T01:22:50Z")
> [@Testy](#): > > Mind you, when I talk about larger breasts, I’m not talking about a stripper or porn star that is going for a world record on breast size. The unnaturally huge breasts are repulsive, at least to me. > I do think that larger breasts (up to a point!) are a pretty universally desirable feature in women. Sure. I think I may not have made myself clear: what I meant is that while men in all cultures on average prefer roundness to flatness, the breast size where the average man will draw the dividing line between “desirably large breasts” and “repulsive unnaturally huge breasts” seems to be more or less culturally determined. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187.md?page=7)