# Is porn degrading the woman's image? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 27, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187 "2012-04-27T22:32:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/121 "2012-05-01T01:45:47Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Sure. I think I may not have made myself clear: what I meant is that while men in all cultures on average prefer roundness to flatness, the breast size where the average man will draw the dividing line between “desirably large breasts” and “repulsive unnaturally huge breasts” seems to be more or less culturally determined. **Kiimstu** OK, I think I understand what you’re saying. I agree that men prefer roundness to flatness but wasn’t really thinking of making that comparison. I was thinking more of women going from B to C cup sizes or something similar. I’m not convinced that male desire for larger breasts has anything to do with culture. If there is data on the number of breast augmentations done broken down by country and the average amount of augmentation per procedure, I would expect say Japan to have as many augmentations per capita as other advanced nations but the average increase would be smaller since an augmentation that looked large on a Western woman would look freakish on a Japanese woman. But this really isn’t a cultural artifact so much as simple bowing to reality. A woman that needs a back brace to stay erect is more a curiosity than an object of desire. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/122 "2012-05-01T07:01:33Z")
> [@grude](#): > > More normal but hot women would help, porn in the 70s and 80s had plenty of hot but real women and the variety was fun. Now all the women have had surgery and anal bleaching and bad spray on tans, not a hair follicle on their body, that is weird and doesn’t even turn me on they look like aliens. > > Hell a return to the stunt cocks attached to normal dudes would help too, the men in modern porn look as strange as the women. Roid cases with no body hair. True, fake boobs are yet another indicator that what they see isn’t real. Porn back then had real plots also - don’t get me started. But people didn’t like it any better. ---
**Author:** ![DukemNukem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/74df32/32.png) [@DukemNukem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DukemNukem)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/123 "2012-05-01T07:45:08Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > The existence of porn made by women, for women makes blanket statements like this suspect. What? Porn was made by a man. The very same man who created motion pictures for the public. On another note, I think porn very much reflects the view of women as does a lot of advertising. How they’re the second sex. A good example would be that BMW ad that says "You know you’re not the first. But do you really care?’ ---
**Author:** ![DukemNukem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/74df32/32.png) [@DukemNukem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DukemNukem)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/124 "2012-05-01T07:49:46Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > All sexual thoughts about women are inherently degrading to women, therefore porn is degrading by definition. How can you think of a woman, a creature like yourself, your very equal, a robot made by god for the purpose of denying our animal natures and worshiping the divine, as a sex object? How can you possibly think of the intense, throbbing, pounding, thrusting pleasure of animal intercourse, imagining over and over the thought of sticking your wee-wee in her pee-pee? What is the matter with you? This is a place for intellectual discourse. There’s absolutely no need for sarcasm. It’s juvenile and slows everything down. As for what you wrote, it would be incorrect because you start off on a faulty premise by saying all sexual thoughts about women are degrading. What made you come to that conclusion? In what context do those sexual thoughts occur? What are those sexual thoughts? Having her give a fillatio while choking? Or something else submissive? Or regular intercourse that isn’t extreme? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/125 "2012-05-01T07:51:39Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > As surgically enhanced breasts become more and more standard-issue equipment for female porn stars and other performers alike, more and more men expect to see larger rounder boobs on women, and more and more women think that that’s what they need to be attractive. It seems to me that these days, more and more women seem to think that “what they need to be attractive” is a Size 0 on their clothing tags. And Size 0 is something you rarely see in porn, except skinny-fetish porn. ---
**Author:** ![DukemNukem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/74df32/32.png) [@DukemNukem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DukemNukem)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/126 "2012-05-01T07:54:10Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > It seems obvious that you can’t sweep all the genres into one; many of them don’t feature women at all, so how could they possibly be degrading to their image? Almost all porn features women and only them. Except for male homosexual porn. I can give you a simple porn site that’ll show you ALL the genres however it’s my second day on this forum and I have no idea if that’s allowed or how to do it. 😕:smack: ---
**Author:** ![DukemNukem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/74df32/32.png) [@DukemNukem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DukemNukem)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/127 "2012-05-01T08:00:06Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s worth nothing the liberal democracies have lots of porn _and_ women’s rights, while (for example) the Islamic theocracies have neither, so I’d say social concerns about the effects of porn are a waste of time. A waste of time? Everything has some sort of effect. As does porn and the effects is a recent development that’s being looked into. In fact, psychologically it’s really negative to a male’s brain and it’s primative inherent functions. Once I learn if it’s possible and allowed to write links to other documents/ websites. I’ll do so. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/128 "2012-05-01T08:51:09Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > People…I’m not saying that watching porn makes you bitch slap your girlfriend and demand that she lick your anus. I’m saying that it skews, however slightly, the perception of how women should behave sexually. That’s all. And I’m not sure that’s a problem. People say that porn appeals to male fantasies. Fantasy is defined as something you wish you could do. Therefore porn is showing things that men wish women would do. If this makes women more likely to not feel bad about doing these things, then that helps both the men and the women. Of course, this can go too far. But has it? Is there a higher number of sexual disatisfaction? Are there larger numbers of women who are resentful of having to go further? Are there more men who are resentful of their wives for not doing what’s in the porn? I honestly have not heard of any of this. It seems that, on the whole, people are being more sexually satisfied. I know for sure that I am not getting jaded: my focus in any porn is how great the woman feels, and that makes me feel great. The exact nature of what does it is irrelevant. I just enjoy the pleasure. So I don’t think it would matter what happened. Okay, so there’s one thing that I would insist upon, but it’s so innocuous that I see people indulging all the time in public without any stares or anything. And, yes, that’s enough information that you ought to be able to figure it out, if that’s the sort of thing that works for you. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/129 "2012-05-01T13:46:57Z")
> [@DukemNukem](#): > > This is a place for intellectual discourse. There’s absolutely no need for sarcasm. It’s juvenile and slows everything down. As for what you wrote, it would be incorrect because you start off on a faulty premise by saying all sexual thoughts about women are degrading. There is no NEED for humor, but it can be fun nonetheless. > [@](#): > > What made you come to that conclusion? > In what context do those sexual thoughts occur? > What are those sexual thoughts? Having her give a fillatio while choking? Or something else submissive? > Or regular intercourse that isn’t extreme? To argue the point seriously, I think the dislike of porn stems from an outdated desire to control men and women’s sexuality. The only way to ensure that a woman was bearing your kids was to marry her and keep her from fucking anyone else. Hence women had to be chaste outside marriage. The Catholic Church in the West actually took this one step further and saw sex as an evil thing necessary for procreation, but not to be indulged in for any other reason. (As Paul said, “It is better to marry than to burn,” i.e., sexual intercourse within marriage was PREFERABLE to going to hell, but not necessarily a good thing in and of itself.) Women who had sex with just any man were whores, evil. etc. Porn celebrates sex for its own sake, of course, so it’s evil and must be stamped out by this “logic,” but I guarantee you, if censorious types DID succeed in stamping out porn, they would simply move on to suppressing sexuality itself. In Victorian times they were opposed to masturbation itself, and people like Dr. Kellogg of Kellogg’s cereals were devising bizarre SM like devices for young men to wear on the crotches while they slept to prevent them from having nighttime erections (and orgasms). Also, most opposition to porn comes from religious types who have absorbed these memes, though few of them will admit that nowadays. Basically, I think anti-porn people are literally crazy, obsessed with controlling other people’s sexuality. It has never been recognized as a form of mental illness because of the cultural dominance of anti-porn types historically, but I am confident that someday it will be relegated to the same back bin of history that fear of witches has been. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/130 "2012-05-01T15:35:43Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > It seems to me that these days, more and more women seem to think that “what they need to be attractive” is a Size 0 on their clothing tags. And Size 0 is something you rarely see in porn, except skinny-fetish porn. **Ruadh** What’s up with that? Women are continually shooting for the size 0 or whatever and complaining like hell about it. (reasonably so, IMHO) But why are they doing this at all? Men don’t like it. The fashion industry may, but who gives a rat’s ass what they think. Aside from some boyfriend with an anorexia fetish, I don’t understand why women do this, it seems pointless and makes the phrase “jumping her bones” way too literal. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/131 "2012-05-01T15:49:52Z")
If shaved/trimmed (for both men _and_ women) is superior, which I think it is, then maybe porn performed a valuable service by making it more accepted. Without porn, I can easily imagine some people being too embarrassed to try it, or just not thinking of it. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/132 "2012-05-01T18:17:15Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > If shaved/trimmed (for both men _and_ women) is superior, which I think it is, then maybe porn performed a valuable service by making it more accepted. Without porn, I can easily imagine some people being too embarrassed to try it, or just not thinking of it. Why do you think shaved is superior? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/133 "2012-05-01T18:25:45Z")
> [@Green\_Cymbeline](#): > > Why do you think shaved is superior? Because heterosexual men don’t fantasize about tongue kissing Grizzly Adams? Also, nose gets tickled. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/134 "2012-05-01T18:30:26Z")
How many people do you know, who aren’t cats, who like licking fur? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/135 "2012-05-01T18:37:24Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > How many people do you know, who aren’t cats, who like licking fur? You’re doing it wrong, don’t lick the bush pay attention to the area in the center. And if you can’t tell the difference between a pussy and Grizzly Adam’s mouth…wait what? OMG I still live in fear of shaved after an incident with stubble that was like rubbing my cock on a porcupine, had to work out a system of careful and instant insertion(she couldn’t shave closer or risk infection). Between silky soft hairs or needle like stubble hmm which would I rather put my genitals/face near? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/136 "2012-05-01T18:47:52Z")
> [@grude](#): > > You’re doing it wrong, don’t lick the bush pay attention to the area in the center. All I’m gonna do is point out that there is significant variation and 100% of fur is not always on the mons. Second, I’ll point out that there are significant variations in technique and what’s desirable, and there’s quite a bit of real estate at issue… “Doing it wrong”, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/137 "2012-05-01T19:02:30Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > How many people do you know, who aren’t cats, who like licking fur? ? It seems odd to be so categorical about this. Don’t most men like having their balls licked, for example? And don’t most men nowadays still not shave or wax their balls? So isn’t that pretty much saying “I don’t mind making **her** put up with licking fur, but I do mind having to put up with it myself”? ISTM that if it were so taken-for-granted that pretty much **everyone** likes smooth genitalia in their partners because it’s more pleasant than “licking fur”, then most men would want to depilate their own genitalia, just as they want their partners to depilate theirs. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/138 "2012-05-01T19:15:40Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > So isn’t that pretty much saying “I don’t mind making **her** put up with licking fur, but I do mind having to put up with it myself”? If women don’t like it and men do, then the answer is that women need to say to their men “Hey, if you like this stuff, you’ve got to shave first.” It doesn’t at all figure that if men prefer smooth skin on women that they’d necessarily be as considerate for women they want to go down on them. ---
**Author:** ![GreenTreeFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3d9bf3/32.png) [@GreenTreeFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenTreeFrog)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/139 "2012-05-01T19:34:23Z")
Simple answer: no. I think it’s got to do more with the style of porn than porn itself. Ie: most “commercial” porn these days depicts women who are very thin, tanned, blonde, augmented breasts and have probably had other cosmetic surgery. The scene is centered around his pleasure more than hers… There is an attitude… She’s helpless and he is going to control her. My friend told me he likes German porn because the women are less plastic and they seem to be enjoying themselves. Don’t know how true that is? Anyway… It would be nice to see more porn where the women has more control (not just in a dominatrix style scene, etc) but with commercial stuff. The films I’m talking about give such an unrealistic view of what women want, what they look like… What men look like too. There also seems to be a real lack of understanding when it comes to female anatomy… Now, I’m not saying that porn should be like an educational sex video but… Well… I’ve made my point 😛 And re sex work - I am a sex worker and with all professions there are people who enjoy their job and people who only do it for the money, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187/140 "2012-05-01T19:38:34Z")
What the hell? Have the women of the world been stricken mute? If a woman wants her partner to shave/trim, she is perfectly capable of saying so. If she simply mentioned that it was more fun to give head if he was shaved most men would have the razor out before she finished the sentence. I’ve never had a woman say she wanted me to shave. Tried it once and she said it looked too much like a turkey neck. Regards Testy [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-porn-degrading-the-womans-image/620187.md?page=8)