# Is poverty coercive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-poverty-coercive/622917 "2012-05-24T03:47:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-poverty-coercive/622917/21 "2012-05-24T21:00:23Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I can’t find it, but this reminds me of a thread (started I think by Bricker) with the following scenario. > > You are stranded with a beautiful starlet on the island and are the only one with the ability to catch food. You tell her that if she wants to eat she has sex with you. > > The general consensus was that this didn’t constitute rape, but I think most would agree that it was coercive. The consensus was it’s _not_ rape?! Jesus Christ I hate people. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-poverty-coercive/622917/22 "2012-05-24T21:25:51Z")
So what’s the point. Ifwedecide that poverty is coercive, then what does that mean? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-poverty-coercive/622917/23 "2012-05-24T21:59:29Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So what’s the point. Ifwedecide that poverty is coercive, then what does that mean? Well it could mean a lot of things. Probably a big one is it’d take a lot of steam out of arguments that labor laws and taxes for social programs are coercive. I’ll let you connect the dots about why. As to the thread, I don’t think poverty itself is coercive, but it opens up individuals to a lot of coercive abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-poverty-coercive/622917/24 "2012-05-24T23:40:36Z")
Who does the wind think it is, pushing us around like that? Bastard! ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-poverty-coercive/622917/25 "2012-05-25T00:32:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Who does the wind think it is, pushing us around like that? Bastard! And _gravity_. What an asshole! ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-poverty-coercive/622917/26 "2012-05-25T01:43:47Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You might as well just say that being alive is coercion. Come on now. A person who can meet their needs and knows it lives under different conditions than a person who can’t meet their basic needs. If somebody has been lacking food and/or shelter and this is starting to really bite them in the ass, these conditions may motivate them to resort to remedies that include actions which most of us would never consider in our daily lives. ‘These conditions’ = poverty. Doesn’t this ‘biting in the ass’ act as a coercive prod to action, any action, so long as it stops the biting? Monks and hippies can take it. A good monk knows there is no birth or death. A good hippie has good weed at least. But Joe Average cannot ‘reasonably’ be expected to be either one of those guys. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So what’s the point. Ifwedecide that poverty is coercive, then what does that mean? C’mon, **Rand**. The OP should be considered as ending with ‘Full Stop’. We have the debate, and later about 50% of people will take one side, 50% the other. Aren’t you ever, I don’t know, _curious_ about things? Ever?? But since you asked, I spun this thread off the ‘Should prostitution be legal?’ thread, since 1) I got warned for making a point by being a jerk to **Finn** and 2) the question is enough its own debate that it might have derailed the thread and 3) I guess my position in that threat hinges on my position on whether or not poverty is a certain kind of coercive force or not, so why not open the question to debate on the 'dope? Personally I think a lot of people are numb/ignorant to what poverty can mean. Try to put on your empath hat and listen to [a song](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOAd7tDM8f8). The famous quote, “It’s ok to eat fish cuz they don’t have any feelings” is not, I think, some internal debate concerning vegetarianism but rather a meditation on life at the bottom of the food chain. I believe that lots of influential people don’t really understand this. That’s an appeal to _pathos_. ‘If we decide that poverty is coercive’, then that means I arrived at the truth via _pathos_. I tend to put more stock in _logos_, but have never denied that _pathos_ and _ethos_ have real roles to play. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-poverty-coercive/622917/27 "2012-05-25T06:51:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I disagree with you’re using my quote to justify your stance. The sign is the physical representation of human action, coercing you to not exceed a certain speed. It’s a fairly mild form of coercion, since we all know that we can speed a little bit and almost certainly not get caught. Still, it’s meant to force you to drive under a certain limit. Well I was being lazy in quoting you. But in that case the sign is not the coercion. It’s just the reminder of the ability of the police to use actual coercion. The act of the government in putting the sign up could be considered coercive. I think your point about the human action applies here. The sign is not the action itself, it carries no intent. But if you mean something else I won’t try to argue that you don’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-poverty-coercive/622917.md?page=1)