# Is Preadolescent Suicide Possible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2003, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127 "2003-06-20T10:53:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pencilpusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d6d6ee/32.png) [@pencilpusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pencilpusher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/1 "2003-06-20T10:53:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Preadolescents > > Research by Greene (1994) dispels many myths surrounding the suicide of children. Greene showed that children under the age of six experience true depression and that they are cognitively and physically able to implement a suicide plan. As Pfeffer (1993, 1994) shows, children are not too young to consider death. However, the exact mediating circumstances remain unclear from a theoretical perspective. > > According to Erikson, how each developmental task is resolved (e.g., infancy: trust versus mistrust; early childhood: autonomy versus doubt and shame; preschool age: initiative versus guilt; school age: industry versus inferiority) defines to a considerable extent how healthy or unhealthy the person becomes and how well he/she is able to deal with future tasks or crises. The developmental history of the person varies depending on the extent to which trust was established in early attachments, a view that is currently well established (Bowlby, 1988). Failure to establish trust contributes to insecurity and poor adjustment in later life. Similarly, failure to establish autonomy leaves the individual subject to shame and doubt, which again can be carried over to the next stage. These may be seen as part of the maladjustment problems of children who internalize or externalize their anger. Anger emerges when socioemotional needs are not met in the contexts where development takes place, and this anger precedes vio lence. The antecedents of life-threatening behavior thus appear related to what may be regarded as a developmental sequence or syndrome rather than to any one specific experience. Do you think is it really possible for a child to know what they are doing when it comes to killing themselves and would they know HOW to do it? ---
**Author:** ![pencilpusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d6d6ee/32.png) [@pencilpusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pencilpusher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/2 "2003-06-20T10:59:03Z")
Damn… forgot to put my cite. :smack: [Preadolescent suicide](http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m2248/148_37/97723214/p2/article.jhtml?term=preadolescent+suicide+rates) ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/3 "2003-06-20T11:01:50Z")
Given that there are a number of child suicide cases each year, the answer must be yes. The article adresses very young children and infants, and assuming the refences are reliable then the answer must be yes for them as well. Is there a factual question here you haven’t answered with your own reference? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/4 "2003-06-20T11:08:40Z")
My bad, I thought I was in GQ. Sorry 'bout that. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/5 "2003-06-20T11:15:56Z")
Bloody hell! I so hope the anser to your OP is NO and i wish I hadn’t read the rest. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/6 "2003-06-20T11:18:08Z")
Yes I was that shocked at the OP I didn’t spell answer correctly punctuate “i”. ---
**Author:** ![pencilpusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d6d6ee/32.png) [@pencilpusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pencilpusher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/7 "2003-06-20T11:58:52Z")
I was on another board and someone brought up that she had tried to commit suicide 4 times before the age of 6. Once when she was three. I don’t know wether or not to believe her and there are some people there that have outright said that she is lying. I don’t know if she is or not but it made me think and since the most intelligent debates I’ve seen in a while happen HERE I thought I’d ask you all about it. Sorry about the shocker Kiwi… Didn’t mean to scare you. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/8 "2003-06-20T12:35:55Z")
Simply plug ‘child’ ‘suicide’ into Google and you will get thousands of sites showing various staitistics and case studies on child suicides worldwide. Most of the sites seem highly reputable. There can be no debate that children can and do think about suicide and occasionally act on those thoughts. When an 8 year old puts a gun to his temple and pulls the trigger, it’s suicide. I imagine that as with adult suicide cases are officially reported as accidents where this is possible. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/9 "2003-06-20T12:37:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pencilpusher \* > **I was on another board and someone brought up that she had tried to commit suicide 4 times before the age of 6…** The fact that she attempted it 4 times (obviously without success) before she was 6, argues against children actually being able to formulate and execute a plan to kill themselves. (Either that, or she is hopelessly inadequate and suicide is probably the most she will ever accomplish in life…) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pencilpusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d6d6ee/32.png) [@pencilpusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pencilpusher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/10 "2003-06-20T12:43:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantula \* > \*\*The fact that she attempted it 4 times (obviously without success) before she was 6, argues against children actually being able to formulate and execute a plan to kill themselves. > (Either that, or she is hopelessly inadequate and suicide is probably the most she will ever accomplish in life…) > > 😉 \*\* :eek: OUCH!! THAT was bad… ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/11 "2003-06-20T12:48:04Z")
Yeah… I’m probably going to get royally fucked by everyone in this thread for that. But it was kinda obvious. I mean, if you can’t kill yourself in 4 attempts you really are a loser… and to make it worse, there’s nothing you can do about it, 'cause you can’t even top yourself… ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/12 "2003-06-20T12:52:32Z")
> [@](#): > > The fact that she attempted it 4 times (obviously without success) before she was 6, argues against children actually being able to formulate and execute a plan to kill themselves. Not really, it just shows that she is female. Most (adult) female suicides are ‘failures’ in the sense that the person doesn’t die. Usually these are deliberately set up so the person will get found before they die. A surprisingly large numbr of the female suicides that do result in death have factors that suggest the discovery was interrupted by abnormal events. A large proportion of failed female suicides (most IIRC) make multiple attempts. This woman is unfortunate, but not unique in her multiple failed attempts. The fact that nothing was successfully done to deal with the problem after the first _THREE_ attempts is truly sad. Interestingly the ‘failure’ rate of female suicide is so high that although most suicide attempts are female, male deaths from suicide are far higher. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/13 "2003-06-20T12:57:41Z")
No Tarantula, you’re not going to get royally fucked, at least not by me. You’ve already earned one pit thread this morning. But a little more sensitivity wouldn’t go astray. The first joke was kinda funny (if completely off colour). Continuing it in a serious manner with ’ you can’t kill yourself in 4 attempts you really are a loser’ is just propagating ignorance of a high level. Suicide as a subject is already borderline taboo and hence the source of more than its fair share of ingnorant beliefs already. No need to add more is there? ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/14 "2003-06-20T13:00:48Z")
\*\* Blake \*\*Wouldn’t this fall into the self-harm catagory, since the desired effect of the action is not death? From what you said, it seems that the only times that someone died was when the intervention was unexpectedly interrupted. So that’s not suicide then, attempted or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/15 "2003-06-20T13:02:14Z")
Have I been pitted ??? That’s cool!!! Please tell me where… Thx :@) :@) :@) :@) ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/16 "2003-06-20T13:10:28Z")
Sorry - scratch that last comment - I’ve found my pitting. [hijack] Boy, was it lame. Who the hell is \*\* Sugaree \*\* ??? She could do with some lessons in how to insult people… Anyhoo - if you’re there Sugaree - join me in the pit… [/hijack] Thx ---
**Author:** ![pencilpusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d6d6ee/32.png) [@pencilpusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pencilpusher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/17 "2003-06-20T13:20:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantula \* > \*\*Sorry - scratch that last comment - I’ve found my pitting. > > [hijack] > Boy, was it lame. Who the hell is \*\* Sugaree \*\* ??? She could do with some lessons in how to insult people… Anyhoo - if you’re there Sugaree - join me in the pit… > [/hijack] > Thx \*\* HEY HEY HEY no hijacking in my thread!! :wally ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/18 "2003-06-20T13:27:44Z")
> [@](#): > > From what you said, it seems that the only times that someone died was when the intervention was unexpectedly interrupted. So that’s not suicide then, attempted or otherwise. Hard to say really. The people concerned believe they were trying to kill themselves in most cases. It in’t self harm in the usual sense that the person is trying to damage themselves, these people are tryig to killthemselves. Yes it’s the cliched ‘cry for help’, but that doens’t make it any less a suicide bid. The suicide is the manner of attracting attention. These peolpe genuinely believe they were trying to kill themselves, even if intellectually they know they weren’t. The subconscious mind does odd things. It’s a bit like asking whether a job or a marriage that one deliberately sets up to fail at is still a marriage or a job. (And there are plenty of people who have done just that with their marriages and their jobs.) ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/19 "2003-06-20T16:30:17Z")
I tried suicide at an early age (but not as early as six). I susspect the attempt of someone this early age is sincere, but the attempt will be done in a ‘childish’ manner. Such as taking 4 asprin instead of half an asprin, or jumping off a swing, or holding their breath until they die. All of which will be non fatal. I can sertainly trace my depression back to early school memories from the age of four or five, so have no doubt that it sets in at a very early stage. Cheers, Bippy ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127/20 "2003-06-20T18:10:28Z")
I contemplated it seriousy as early as 7. I’m pretty sure I could have pulled it off if I had firmly decided to do so as my planned method was to walk the 10 blocks from my house to the nearby 4 lane highway at night and throw myself in front of a truck. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-preadolescent-suicide-possible/183127.md?page=2)