# Is President Trump suddenly Getting Worse? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 12, 2018, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444 "2018-01-12T04:54:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/61 "2018-01-12T21:29:10Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Which is somewhat curious to me. With all else that is questionable about his past and current behavior that is widely known, people still voted for him. > > But this, THIS he wanted covered up? Hm? Seems to me it is very “on brand” for him to schtup a porn star, this would be something he would want known? Only speculating, but if **I** were a lifelong serial braggart and egomaniac who boasted in front of millions on live TV about the size of my manhood, and someone out there had contradictory evidence and an axe to grind… ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/62 "2018-01-12T21:29:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Then why did you post it here? There is no possibility of a factual answer to any question about Trump on the SDMB. > … > [@Ravenman](#): > > I disagree. … I think Shodan may be right. After all, he didn’t offer one either. (If you at home are attempting to read my response as I would say it, “either” is pronounced ee-ther, not I-ther.) ETA: I now see that I was ninja’d much more succinctly and professionally by Vinyl Turnip. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/63 "2018-01-12T21:35:57Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Because he had married Melania the year before. He also married her before the pussy grabbing confession and attempts to grope that woman when he got off the bus (remember, it all started with the tic tacs) ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/64 "2018-01-12T21:58:55Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > With “shithole countries” he’s reached a new low. Which he does weekly. > > How low can he go? At some point, he’s going to moon the pope or something. His supporters will still say that the Argentine bastard had it coming. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/65 "2018-01-12T22:36:48Z")
In Wolffe’s book as well as other sources, Trump’s key advisors characterized him as an [an idiot](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/01/test-your-knowledge-what-are-people-saying-about-donald-trump/) and worse. Over the past few days, Trump has made more high profile appearances in an attempt to establish his authority. [It hasn’t gone well](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/01/donald-trumps-i-am-not-a-moron-tour-a-report-card/). The OP can look over that last link and reasonably conclude that Trump’s public jackassery[sup]1[/sup] has gotten worse this week. But that’s plausibly due to the greater number of public events, and not necessarily a stroke or anything internal. Although there’s been reasonable discussion of his [mental faculties](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/01/nope-theres-nothing-wrong-with-donald-trumps-memory/) as well: contrast interviews of today with those from 20 years ago. [sup]1[/sup] I’m not sure what else to call it. Gaffe doesn’t really cover it. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/66 "2018-01-12T22:40:43Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Are you talking about him grabbing himself? (Where?) Is this an expression?. I never watch TV so I have not noticed such a thing. There’s also how he’s lately taken to drinking water from bottles with two hands, like a baby holding a bottle. It suggests growing insecurity in his muscular control and eyesight. It’s as if it takes a lot of concentration for him to get the water into his mouth. Granted, I miss my mouth about six times a week when I’m trying to drink something, but that’s a lifelong affliction. I blame my shitty eyesight and general lack of peripheral vision for not noticing where the cup’s going. If I were president, I would only use a straw and I would still struggle to get the straw where it’s supposed to be. The point about Trump is that he didn’t seem to have this problem a year ago. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/67 "2018-01-12T23:15:13Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Show me the relevant code of medical ethics that makes such an exception, please. There is a code of ethics that allows for such a thing. I can’t link to it because my statements stem from an interview I saw with the Doctors involved with writing the book: “The Dangerous Case of DT” In the interview, they spoke at length about the ethics of making such an analysis about a person they have never actually seen in person. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/68 "2018-01-12T23:45:15Z")
Isn’t today the day that he’s going to have a physical exam that he’s totally going to release all the results from? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/69 "2018-01-12T23:46:47Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > There is a code of ethics that allows for such a thing. I can’t link to it because my statements stem from an interview I saw with the Doctors involved with writing the book: “The Dangerous Case of DT” > > In the interview, they spoke at length about the ethics of making such an analysis about a person they have never actually seen in person. Kinda jumping into this thread blind, but… There is no question among most psychological professionals that this is unethical. It’s Psych 101. You don’t diagnose someone you’ve never met. I don’t think people fully understand the ramifications of this sort of thing. It’s not just about politics, it’s about how mental illness is handled and perceived in our culture, it’s about the inherent cultural bias of the DSM, it’s about alienating half the country from the psychological profession, and a lot of other things. But as I’ve stated before, you don’t have to be a psychological professional to judge a rambling madman as batshit crazy. With someone as erratic and irrational as Donald Trump, mental illness is an entirely reasonable conclusion for anyone to make. And this is so painfully obvious I would contend that the burden of proof is on others to provide evidence that he’s psychologically stable. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/70 "2018-01-12T23:53:56Z")
> [@Profound\_Gibberish](#): > > A couple of comments. > > As for it being “unethical” for mental health providers to comment on the mental status of others, the APA formally endorsed and overly assisted in the torture of thousands of people in the name of terrorism, so their “ethics” are slipperier than owl excrement. This is a fact. But it can also be telling. For the APA to take an ethical stance on anything is generally reflective of the fact that they are finally, 30 years later, catching up with majority professional opinion. They are a conservative organization, so if they have any ethical stance at all, it’s usually indicative of professional consensus. Ergo, the guidance against diagnosing unknown persons wouldn’t be in their code of ethics unless a bunch of professionals pushed for it to be there. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/71 "2018-01-12T23:56:20Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > There is a code of ethics that allows for such a thing. I can’t link to it because my statements stem from an interview I saw with the Doctors involved with writing the book: “The Dangerous Case of DT” > > In the interview, they spoke at length about the ethics of making such an analysis about a person they have never actually seen in person. Then provide a cite, or retract. I saw it on tv or the internet is NOT a cite. Who are these people? What are their qualifications? Do they have an agenda? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/72 "2018-01-12T23:59:38Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > But this, THIS he wanted covered up? Hm? Seems to me it is very “on brand” for him to schtup a porn star, this would be something he would want known? Unless the pornstar in question had an embarrassingly small penis. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/73 "2018-01-13T00:02:55Z")
I found a body of polling asking whether Trump is “level headed” or not. I think that’s a fair statement of the question asked by the OP. Generally, the public’s views of Trump’s level headedness was -30 or so last year. More recently, it is hovering around -40. The polling shows a clear and widening pattern toward negative responses. See question 13 here: > **[Poll Results | Quinnipiac University Poll](https://poll.qu.edu/poll-results/)** > > Quinnipiac University Poll’s list of recent and past poll results for political races, state and national elections, and issues of public concern. It is important to note that there are Americans who both see Trump as not level headed but also fit to serve as President. There is only three months of reporting on this question, number 18, but the numbers are just bouncing around low 40s for “yes” and mid-50s for “no.” But as a factual matter, there are actually more Americans who think Trump is mentally stable, but not all of them think it is to the point of disqualifying him from office. Not possible to get a factual answer to the question? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/74 "2018-01-13T00:10:49Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Then provide a cite, or retract. I saw it on tv or the internet is NOT a cite. > > Who are these people? What are their qualifications? Do they have an agenda? This isn’t Great Debates. I don’t care enough about this subject to do extensive research. All I know is that they are psychologists. Their analysis has been signed off on by many of their peers and psychology associations. I retract nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/75 "2018-01-13T00:22:32Z")
Skimming through the code of ethics for the Canadian Psychological Association, I see a number of relevant articles, including the importance of placing patient well-being before the good of society, due process with regard to evaluation, informed consent, consideration of all involved family members, gratuitous self-promotion, respect for individual privacy, and this one in particular: > [@](#): > > [Professionals should] make themselves aware of the current social and political climate and of previous and possible future societal misuses of psychological knowledge, and exercise due discretion in communicating psychological information (e.g., research results, theoretical knowledge), in order to discourage any further misuse. The overarching theme I’m getting is this: The purpose of psychological knowledge for a mental health professional is to treat mental illness. It’s the only reason to make a diagnosis. If the goal of these people is not to get help for Donald Trump, it’s unethical for them to diagnose and discuss his mental illness, particularly without his consent. If their goals are political, and not medical, they are doing wrong. I know some people would rather pitch the whole of the mental health profession under the bus in the service of their political ideals, but it isn’t right and it’s not even best for society in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2018, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/76 "2018-01-13T00:35:31Z")
Scariest thought of all: The most powerful man in the world is Steve Douchey. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2018, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/77 "2018-01-13T00:55:52Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Kinda jumping into this thread blind, but… > > There is no question among most psychological professionals that this is unethical. It’s Psych 101. You don’t diagnose someone you’ve never met. > > I don’t think people fully understand the ramifications of this sort of thing. It’s not just about politics, it’s about how mental illness is handled and perceived in our culture, it’s about the inherent cultural bias of the DSM, it’s about alienating half the country from the psychological profession, and a lot of other things. > > But as I’ve stated before, you don’t have to be a psychological professional to judge a rambling madman as batshit crazy. With someone as erratic and irrational as Donald Trump, mental illness is an entirely reasonable conclusion for anyone to make. And this is so painfully obvious I would contend that the burden of proof is on others to provide evidence that he’s psychologically stable. As I said in another thread: > [@The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/15280): > > An [editorial](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/10/opinion/is-mr-trump-nuts.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fopinion-editorials)in the NYTimes today said who cares if thump is mentally ill? Emphasis added. > IOW it’s not rocket surgery. We don’t need no stinkin’ diagnosis to tell us that he’s clearly unfit for the job. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/78 "2018-01-13T01:12:18Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Kinda jumping into this thread blind, but… > > There is no question among most psychological professionals that this is unethical. It’s Psych 101. You don’t diagnose someone you’ve never met. > > I don’t think people fully understand the ramifications of this sort of thing. It’s not just about politics, it’s about how mental illness is handled and perceived in our culture, it’s about the inherent cultural bias of the DSM, it’s about alienating half the country from the psychological profession, and a lot of other things. > > But as I’ve stated before, you don’t have to be a psychological professional to judge a rambling madman as batshit crazy. With someone as erratic and irrational as Donald Trump, mental illness is an entirely reasonable conclusion for anyone to make. And this is so painfully obvious I would contend that the burden of proof is on others to provide evidence that he’s psychologically stable. I think this is an important thing for armchair psychologists to keep in mind. However, you seem to want to have it both ways. What is psychological stability and how is it measured? And, in a debate, the burden of proof is never on the person who is not making an assertion of fact. Finally, saying someone is “batshit crazy” is a meaningless assertion in the process of reasoned debate. Seems to me we’re bettor off sticking to “frequently contradicts himself”, “makes many factually incorrect assertions” and/or “is easily provoked into making personal attacks against people with whom he has a disagreement”. Things like that. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/79 "2018-01-13T01:14:33Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > This isn’t Great Debates. I don’t care enough about this subject to do extensive research. > > All I know is that they are psychologists. Their analysis has been signed off on by many of their peers and psychology associations. > > I retract nothing. Isn’t Elections basically a subforum of Great Debates? The same rules apply, don’t they? And your “psychologists” are behaving unprofessionally. Mental illness is a serious medical issue. Internet mocking doesn’t help anyone. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2018, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444/80 "2018-01-13T01:17:41Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Isn’t Elections basically a subforum of Great Debates? The same rules apply, don’t they? > > And your “psychologists” are behaving unprofessionally. > > Mental illness is a serious medical issue. Internet mocking doesn’t help anyone. [No.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/index.php) There are no sub-forums. Trump and the GOP are acting unprofessionally and the consequences are far worse than the opinion of a single or even a few psychologists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-president-trump-suddenly-getting-worse/806444.md?page=5)