# Is professor Neil Degrasse Tyson ignorant of Newton's laws? (motion of a football) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 29, 2025, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477 "2025-09-29T11:45:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/21 "2025-09-29T15:49:37Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > “there are a bunch more subtleties, but they each, and collectively, amount to negligible differences in this circumstance. They exist, but they’d detract from your takeaways from my explanation of football kicks.” But a ball bouncing off the goal post means any small impact is _not_ negligible. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > So going forward they can blame close calls (good or bad) on these sorta-secret subtleties. I’m not sure how we get from a description of kinematic physics to whether or not a referee makes the correct call. The referee’s job is to observe where the ball goes, not how it got there. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > For all he knows the kicker took the effect into account already, and just muffed it. I mean, he’s aiming for the middle, not the goalpost! I think he’s already missed! Also not sure how why intent of the kicker matters to describing the kinematics of the ball. Rotational dynamics are there no matter the kicker’s intent. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Did NDT take into account the fingerprint grease on one side of the ball? Hmm? QED ipso facto I rest my case. What does that have to do with the Coriolis force? * * * I feel like some comments are directed at the pedagogy, which can be subjective, and would probably be better suited in another forum. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/22 "2025-09-29T15:49:53Z")
'Zactly. IMO science popularizers have an obligation not to turn into gotcha peddlers. It’s a tough line to take, since gotcha clickbait is what generates cheap easy revenue. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/23 "2025-09-29T15:55:13Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > What does that have to do with the Coriolis force? Back to you: what does the Coriolis force have to do with a kick that 1) isn’t overridden by the rest of the forces on a tumbling ball that was imprecicely kicked by an irregular shoe and a kicker that isn’t a robot, and 2) was already muffed? It’s 18 feet between the uprights, and the Coriolis effect moved it (what) a third of an inch. Whoopie fucking do. The kicker already moved the ball 9 feet off his intended target all on his own. It’s silly to credit the coriolis effect. Don’t congratulate physics, fire your kicker. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/24 "2025-09-29T15:59:27Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > eta: the kicker probably subconsciously already allows for the effect. You think that a kicker is somehow aware of, and adjusts for a force that accounts for a 1/4” difference, ant most? Even on a subconscious level that’s a pretty big stretch. There is way too much variance between all the other factors for it be noticed, let alone measured. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/25 "2025-09-29T16:00:21Z")
The Coriolis force affects football motion. In some particular cases, a few millimeters difference in trajectory can change whether the ball bounces in or out. Whether that fact is interesting to you or not is a subjective matter, not a factual question. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/26 "2025-09-29T16:07:22Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > You think that a kicker is somehow aware of, and adjusts for a force that accounts for a 1/4” difference, ant most? Yes. A kicker kicks a lot of practice kicks. If he notices they tend to drift one way predominately, he’s going to adjust. Does he know why? Does he complain “physics is a harsh mistress”? No, he just kicks a wee bit more to one side. > [@Pleonast](#): > > Whether that fact is interesting to you or not is a subjective matter, not a factual question. It’s also a factor in how your car takes a corner. If NDT made a piece about how a car crash was averted by the coriolis effect of turning wheels…he’d still be guilty of overuse of micro effects on a macro problem. Because the coriolis effect is one tiny thing of a large number of macro factors, that he’s ignoring for the > [@LSLGuy](#): > > gotcha clickbait ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/27 "2025-09-29T16:14:17Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > He does seem like the kind of person who would use his real name on a message board. I’m in good company, then! ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/28 "2025-09-29T16:14:20Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > It’s 18 feet between the uprights, and the Coriolis effect moved it (what) a third of an inch. Whoopie fucking do. The kicker already moved the ball 9 feet off his intended target all on his own. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Yes. A kicker kicks a lot of practice kicks. If he notices they tend to drift one way predominately, he’s going to adjust. Does he know why? Does he complain “physics is a harsh mistress”? No, he just kicks a wee bit more to one side. So you’re saying that the kicker missed his intended target by 9 feet, but is accurate enough to correct for quarter inch deflections? As for NdT’s claim, it’s probably impossible to know for sure, but it’s entirely possible that, _all else being equal_, the coriolis force accounted for the minute deflection that made the kick such that it wouldn’t have gone in otherwise. Likely? Probably not. But not outside of the realm of imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/29 "2025-09-29T16:37:42Z")
I calculate, with decent care, a deviation of 0.98 mm, about nine times smaller than Neil’s estimate. I leave it to the reader to decide if that makes his “incorrect”. To my eye, it’s a substantive difference for the claim that the deviation “likely enabled” the field goal. The stadium is at 39 degrees latitude. The stadium is rotated by (coincidentally) a 39 degree angle relative to north. The posts are 42 yd away from the hold. The ball hits the left post very high, 14.3 yd above ground level. The hang time is 2.0 s. (The last two quantities are extracted from the frame-by-frame video.) Juggling the various triangles to get what you want, these facts together yield the difference in distance from the earth’s rotation axis for the start and end points of the path. That difference is 9.5 yd. That is to say, the end point is 9.5 yd closer to the rotation axis. Thus, the difference in east/west velocity is 0.00063 m/s. Given the angle of the stadium, the ball sees just a component (sideline to sideline) of that: 0.00049 m/s. So during the flight, the contact point on the post moves transversely by 0.98 mm. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/30 "2025-09-29T16:37:45Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Yes. A kicker kicks a lot of practice kicks. If he notices they tend to drift one way predominately A 1/4” isn’t “predominately”, and as mentioned, there are far more factors that would turn that into noise. A kicker even at the professional level is simply not going to notice 1/4” to the south. If they were making such an adjustment it would mean all other variables were already successfully accounted for - and kickers regularly fail at levels magnitudes greater than 1/4”. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/31 "2025-09-29T16:43:09Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Displacement = (1/2) .004 m/s2 x 1.5^2 = .0045 m and let’s generously round up and call that 5mm or about .2 inches. Having settled (in my mind) the general scale of the adjustment, I have a much more important question: does this game even exist, or is it something made up for dramatic purposes? I was looking at the montage of shots accompanying his narrative, and it looks like a bunch of random clips interspersed with some Bengals footage. So, I looked, and the longest sudden death OT FG I could find for the Bengals was 44 yards, and it didn’t go off a post. > [@Munch](#): > > A 1/4” isn’t “predominately”, and as mentioned, there are far more factors that would turn that into noise. A kicker even at the professional level is simply not going to notice 1/4” to the south. If they were making such an adjustment it would mean all other variables were already successfully accounted for - and kickers regularly fail at levels magnitudes greater than 1/4”. 100%. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/32 "2025-09-29T16:51:51Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > I have a much more important question: does this game even exist There have been plenty of games won off of a doink, and it stands to reason that 1/4” was all the difference necessary for it to go one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/33 "2025-09-29T16:54:14Z")
Okay, but that’s not my question. ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/34 "2025-09-29T16:54:51Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > I have a much more important question: does this game even exist Yes, this was game 5 from 2015. I used the video of the game to get the ending height and hang time of the kick for my calculation. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/35 "2025-09-29T16:59:02Z")
I’m really amazed by all the factors you considered! Regarding the kicker intuitively adjusting, seems unlikely to me – wouldn’t the amount of offset depend on the latitude, and the direction of the kick? It’s not all all kicks are due east or due north or something. ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/36 "2025-09-29T16:59:04Z")
And back to the original concern in the OP: > [@chappachula](#): > > But as I understand Newton’s laws…it doesn’t matter that the earth (and hence the goalposts) were moving. Find a friend and go to a playground with a merry-go-round. Get the merry-go-round spinning (even just a bit), hop on, and throw a ball back and forth across the center. You will gain an immediate intuition as to why it matters that the “world” is rotating underneath the free trajectory of the ball. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/37 "2025-09-29T17:01:55Z")
So to sum up, on the superficial question of whether the Coriolis effect can be credited in any meaningful way for the successful field goal, that’s a reach. But on the more fundamental question of whether the force does in fact deflect the ball to some fractional degree, that answer is yes. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/38 "2025-09-29T17:09:29Z")
> [@Pasta](#): > > Yes, this was game 5 from 2015. I used the video of the game to get the ending height and hang time of the kick for my calculation. Ah, got it, thanks. 42 years instead of 50, a lesser latitude than I assumed, and an error in my calculation (I forgot the distance already includes the 10+7)…with my spherical cow approach I’m getting less than a tenth of an inch now. Thanks for clarifying. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/39 "2025-09-29T21:46:55Z")
Not only are the Coriolis effects NdGT described tiny, but they’re even tiny in comparison to Coriolis effects. The wind at the location of the stadium at the time of the kick had a much greater effect on the trajectory of the ball, and the weather patterns were much more dependent on Coriolis effects than the ball directly was. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2025, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477/40 "2025-09-30T00:51:12Z")
The large scale climate dynamics (i.e. the Hadley, mid-latitude, and polar cells) are certainly largely driven by Coriolis effects mediated or amplified by ocean thermal transfer, but local effects over land are primarily driven by wind and hydrological interactions by geographical features like mountains, valleys, and large inland bodies of water. Regardless, the Earth frame rotational effects on bodies not moving at hypersonic speeds are swamped out by many other factors to make measurement of that specific influence virtually impossible. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-professor-neil-degrasse-tyson-ignorant-of-newtons-laws-motion-of-a-football/1023477.md?page=3)