# Is psychiatry dishonest? Is it better for everyone if keeps faking diagnostic assurance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 6, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596 "2013-05-06T02:45:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/121 "2013-05-09T20:55:16Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > So now stuff is not true if its not online and free, huh? Can’t trust those pesky scientific journals with their filthy paywalls. :rolleyes: Now now, it could all be a lie. Have you ever held a moon rock in your hand? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/122 "2013-05-09T20:56:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [**Trinopus** is a man baby?](http://www.google.com/search?q=man+baby&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=_d2LUfPmF8aw4QT8yYDYBg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1164&bih=835#imgrc=ZVi0qMA0sOygKM%3A%3BiNRNBxQNab25YM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.commercekitchen.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2012%252F02%252Fawkward-stock-photos-man-baby-560x839.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.commercekitchen.com%252F2012%252F02%252Fawkward-stock-photos%252F%3B560%3B839) Man-baby photos… The horror! The Horror! > [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I know Trinopus is a man, but he said the ‘chair’ is a girl. I always pictured the chair more like [this](http://www.xblafans.com/wp-content/uploads//2011/06/Deadliest-Warrior-Legends-Shaka-Zulu.jpg). > > But yes, to clarify, I am not insinuating in any form, way or fashion that I would desire for Trinopus himself to be my chair or any other piece of furniture or appliance for me. No harrasso. ??? A picture of Shako Zulu, the warrior? Sit on that guy and your life expectancy will be measured in femtoseconds! That is one of the last people in all history I’d use as a chair! And, no worries, no harrasso! > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Given this “understanding,” I recommend a healthy dose of that self-doubt we spoke of earlier. Perhaps that would lead you to wisdom, because you’re on the wrong track right now. As the guy said on old Star Trek, he’s so wrong, he’s used up all his mistakes for the rest of his life. Does he imagine that a given specific physical surgery technique would work for all people? Nope! Not everyone has the same number of subclavian arteries, for instance. Human physical anatomy varies. Why, then, is it so important to him to imagine that a given specific psychiatric technique will work equally well for all people? The trouble with someone taking an absolutist or extremist position in a discussion like this is that it poisons the thread for anyone who might want to take a dissenting opinion that happens to fall within the zone of moderation. Polemically, it serves me just fine, as I’m very much a believer in the psychiatric sciences as sciences per se. I’m just realistic enough to know that this is a science still in the very early stages of development. Hell, look at physics back when Newton’s work was less than a century old! ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/123 "2013-05-09T21:01:54Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > 😕 Typically, scientific literature is not freely available. Some may be. Are you affiliated with an academic library? > > This literature is vast. I’ll go back and see what I can link to, but it would also help if you could specify what you want to know. Your original request (is therapy effective?) is more general than what I said. > > So, what can I go and get for you, sir? Oh please. I do so much research on line that even if I can’t get the papers I can at least find the abstract - at least for anything published in the last couple of decades. And yes, I’m within spitting distance of several academic libraries, but have no intention of hauling my butt out to one when I know it’s completely unnecessary. If the argument you want to make - that the best and most effective treatment for depression (we’ll make it easy for you and leave to just that one topic) is therapy rather than medication, please don’t even attempt to make such a feeble argument as the supposed “fact” that you can find no online authority for this. That’s just insulting. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/124 "2013-05-09T22:01:23Z")
> [@deltasigma](#): > > And yes, I’m within spitting distance of several academic libraries, but have no intention of hauling my butt out to one when I know it’s completely unnecessary. No, if you’re affiliated with an academic institution, you would be able to access these things online. No butt hauling needed. Can you read these: [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/da.20829/full](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/da.20829/full) [http://johnjayresearch.org/cje/files/2012/08/Empirical-Status-of-CBT.pdf](http://johnjayresearch.org/cje/files/2012/08/Empirical-Status-of-CBT.pdf) [http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/0890-8567/PIIS0890856709620530.pdf](http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/0890-8567/PIIS0890856709620530.pdf) Note that the following is from the Practice Parameters of a **psychiatric** organization. > [@](#): > > As reviewed below, moderate depression may respond > to CBT or IPT alone. More severe depressive episodes > will generally require treatment with antidepressants. > Treatment with antidepressants may be administered > alone until the child is amenable to psychotherapy or if > appropriate, they can be combined with psychotherapy > from the beginning of treatment. Finally, depressed > youth who do not respond to prior monotherapy treat- > ment, either psychotherapy or antidepressants, require a > combination of these two treatment modalities. > **[Cognitive therapy vs. medications for depression: Treatment outcomes and...](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2748674/)** > > Depression is one of the most prevalent and debilitating of the psychiatric disorders. Studies have shown that cognitive therapy is as efficacious as antidepressant medications at treating depression, and it seems to reduce the risk of relapse even... > [@](#): > > The evidence shows that that CT is as efficacious as ADM, and that its effects are more enduring. > **[Study: Depression drugs no better than placebos - USATODAY.com](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-02-26-depression-study_N.htm)** > > Best-selling anti-depressants like Prozac and Seroxat are barely more effective than placebos in treating most people with depression, a study led by a British university said Tuesday. > [@](#): > > Study: Depression drugs no better than placebos > > LONDON ([USATODAY.com](http://USATODAY.com)) — Best-selling anti-depressants like Prozac and Seroxat are barely more effective than placebos in treating most people with depression, a study led by a British university said Tuesday. > > The research, which analyzed 47 clinical trials, breaks new ground by incorporating data not previously released by drug companies which researchers obtained under U.S. freedom of information laws. > > Its findings prompted some academics and mental health campaigners to question whether people with mild and moderate depression should be prescribed drugs like Prozac, which has been taken by 40 million people worldwide. > > “The difference in improvement between patients taking placebos and patients taking anti-depressants is not very great,” said Professor Irving Kirsch of Hull University, in northern England, who led the team. > > "This means that depressed people can improve without chemical treatments. > “Given these results, there seems little reason to prescribe antidepressant medication to any but the most severely depressed patients unless alternative treatments have failed to provide a benefit.” ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/125 "2013-05-09T22:08:13Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > No, if you’re affiliated with an academic institution, you would be able to access these things online. No butt hauling needed. > > Can you read these: > > [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/da.20829/full](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/da.20829/full) > > [http://johnjayresearch.org/cje/files/2012/08/Empirical-Status-of-CBT.pdf](http://johnjayresearch.org/cje/files/2012/08/Empirical-Status-of-CBT.pdf) > > [http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/0890-8567/PIIS0890856709620530.pdf](http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/0890-8567/PIIS0890856709620530.pdf) > > Note that the following is from the Practice Parameters of a **psychiatric** organization. > > [Cognitive therapy vs. medications for depression: Treatment outcomes and neural mechanisms - PMC](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2748674/) > > [Study: Depression drugs no better than placebos - USATODAY.com](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-02-26-depression-study_N.htm) IOW, the best you can do is show that MAYBE they are equally effective. That’s pretty much what I expected - as opposed to the rather grander claim that YOU were making. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/126 "2013-05-09T23:15:54Z")
> [@deltasigma](#): > > IOW, the best you can do is show that MAYBE they are equally effective. That’s pretty much what I expected - as opposed to the rather grander claim that YOU were making. So you objected to the literature I cited that was not available freely to you online. I go and I find stuff that is available on line, and you take **less than seven minutes** to skim it and then make a snarky pronouncement. I really figured I shouldn’t bother. The evidence shows that at worst the effects of CBT are equal to medication, but that there is evidence that the effects of CBT may be longer lasting, that CBT may be more cost-effective, and that the effects of medications may be explained largely by placebo effects. In addition, there may be increased risk of suicide with medications. Irwin M. Fletcher, you choose. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/127 "2013-05-09T23:24:56Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > So you objected to the literature I cited that was not available freely to you online. > > I go and I find stuff that is available on line, and you take **less than seven minutes** to skim it and then make a snarky pronouncement. > > I really figured I shouldn’t bother. > > The evidence shows that at worst the effects of CBT are equal to medication, but that there is evidence that the effects of CBT may be longer lasting, that CBT may be more cost-effective, and that the effects of medications may be explained largely by placebo effects. > > In addition, there may be increased risk of suicide with medications. > > Irwin M. Fletcher, you choose. Here are the abstracts from each of your cites. Please show which one supports the conclusion that at it’s WORST, CBT is AS effective. > [@](#): > > _Background:_ Little is known about whether cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) or pharmacotherapy is relatively more advantageous for depressive versus anxiety disorders. _Methods:_ We conducted a meta-analysis wherein we searched electronic databases and references to select randomized controlled studies comparing CBT and pharmacotherapy, with or without placebo, in adults with major depressive or anxiety disorders. The primary effect size was calculated from disorder-specific outcome measures as the difference between CBT and pharmacotherapy outcomes (i.e., positive effect size favors CBT; negative effect size favors pharmacotherapy). _Results:_ Twenty-one anxiety (_ **N** _ = 1,266) and twenty-one depression (_ **N** _ = 2,027) studies comparing medication to CBT were included. Including all anxiety disorders, the overall effect size was.25 (95% CI: −0.02, 0.55, _ **P** _ =.07). Effects for panic disorder significantly favored CBT over medications (.50, 95% CI: 0.02, 0.98). Obsessive–compulsive disorder showed similar effects-sizes, though not statistically significant (.49, 95% CI: −0.11, 1.09). Medications showed a nonsignificant advantage for social anxiety disorder (−.22, 95% CI: −0.50, 0.06). The overall effect size for depression studies was.05 (95% CI: −0.09, 0.19), with no advantage for medications or CBT. Pooling anxiety disorder and depression studies, the omnibus comparison of the relative difference between anxiety and depression in effectiveness for CBT versus pharmacotherapy pointed to a nonsignificant advantage for CBT in anxiety versus depression (_ **B** _ =.14, 95% CI: −0.14, 0.43). _Conclusions:_ On balance, the evidence presented here indicates that there are at most very modest differences in effects of CBT versus pharmacotherapy in the treatment of anxiety versus depressive disorders. There seems to be larger differences _ **between** _ the anxiety disorders in terms of their relative responsiveness to pharmacotherapy versus CBT. > [@](#): > > This review summarizes the current meta-analysis literature on treatment outcomes of CBT for a wide range of psychiatric > disorders. A search of the literature resulted in a total of 16 methodologically rigorous meta-analyses. Our review focuses on effect > sizes that contrast outcomes for CBT with outcomes for various control groups for each disorder, which provides an overview of > the effectiveness of cognitive therapy as quantified by meta-analysis. Large effect sizes were found for CBT for unipolar > depression, generalized anxiety disorder, panic disorder with or without agoraphobia, social phobia, posttraumatic stress disorder, > and childhood depressive and anxiety disorders. Effect sizes for CBT of marital distress, anger, childhood somatic disorders, and > chronic pain were in the moderate range. CBT was somewhat superior to antidepressants in the treatment of adult depression. CBT > was equally effective as behavior therapy in the treatment of adult depression and obsessive-compulsive disorder. Large > uncontrolled effect sizes were found for bulimia nervosa and schizophrenia. The 16 meta-analyses we reviewed support the > efficacy of CBT for many disorders. While limitations of the meta-analytic approach need to be considered in interpreting the > results of this review, our findings are consistent with other review methodologies that also provide support for the efficacy of CBT > [@](#): > > This practice parameter describes the epidemiology, clinical picture, differential diagnosis, course, risk factors, and > pharmacological and psychotherapy treatments of children and adolescents with major depressive or dysthymic disorders. > Side effects of the antidepressants, particularly the risk of suicidal ideation and behaviors are discussed. Recommen- > dations regarding the assessment and the acute, continuation, and maintenance treatment of these disorders are based > on the existent scientific evidence as well as the current clinical practice. > J. Am. Acad. Child Adolesc. Psychiatry, > 2007; > 46(11):1503 > Y > 1526. > KeyWords: > major depressive disorder, dysthymic disorder, evaluation, treatment, antidepressants, > selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, psychotherapy, practice param > [@](#): > > Depression is one of the most prevalent and debilitating of the psychiatric disorders. Studies have shown that cognitive therapy is as efficacious as antidepressant medications at treating depression, and it seems to reduce the risk of relapse even after its discontinuation. Cognitive therapy and antidepressant medication probably engage some similar neural mechanisms, as well as mechanisms that are distinctive to each. A precise specification of these mechanisms might one day be used to guide treatment selection and improve outcomes. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/128 "2013-05-09T23:45:42Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I kind of believe we are more mechanical than most would like to believe. I feel like we are getting a constant flow of chemicals into our brains that are telling us it feels good or it feels bad. If we learned to stimulate these feel good chemicals through bad bevavior of one kind or another thats just what we know. Reconditioning in these cases I feel is possible. > Feeling safe and secure, feeling like we have a place in our family and community and are appeciated and liked, being creative and appreciated for our creativeness all send positive signals and if reinforced I believe can lead to healing I agree that feeling safe and secure trumps it all. Actually we are all safe and secure all the time. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/129 "2013-05-09T23:47:35Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Given this “understanding,” I recommend a healthy dose of that self-doubt we spoke of earlier. Perhaps that would lead you to wisdom, because you’re on the wrong track right now. You might recommend that to the scientists who can’t cure patients. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/130 "2013-05-10T04:37:44Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I agree that feeling safe and secure trumps it all. Actually we are all safe and secure all the time. Yeah, right, the guys at the Boston Marathon who’ve lost their lives and legs and things would certainly agree with this… > [@lekatt](#): > > You might recommend that to the scientists who can’t cure patients. Do you imagine for one second that they don’t know this? The science is advancing. It’s better today than it was yesterday, and will likely be better tomorrow than today. Do you sneer at Ben Franklin for not knowing about transistors? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/131 "2013-05-10T10:42:38Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Yeah, right, the guys at the Boston Marathon who’ve lost their lives and legs and things would certainly agree with this… > > Do you imagine for one second that they don’t know this? The science is advancing. It’s better today than it was yesterday, and will likely be better tomorrow than today. Do you sneer at Ben Franklin for not knowing about transistors? Everyone loses their body eventually but no one loses their life. This world seems very cruel at times and it is cruel. There is a reason for everything. We can understand the lessons while despising them at the same time. I pray for the victims as well as the perpetrator. If everyone understood the physical it would no longer be the effective learning tool it is now. I am sorry but bad things happen. I did not design the system, but I understand it. If you drop your car keys in a dark alley but walk up the street to look for them under the street light you will never find them. Scientists are looking in the brain when they should be looking at the consciousness. They will never succeed until they look in the right place. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/132 "2013-05-11T00:04:23Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I agree that feeling safe and secure trumps it all. Actually we are all safe and secure all the time. Tell that to Holocaust victims. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/133 "2013-05-11T11:12:27Z")
Someone may have already pointed this out and I missed it. Sorry if this is a repeat. The author mentioned in the OP is not a psychotherapist (psychiatrist, psychologist, nurse therapist, or social worker. Yes, a psychiatrist is a psychotherapist too.) The man who wrote the work referred to in the OP is none of those. He is a creative writer. Beneath the title of his essay is is name link which leads to this: “Benjamin Nugent is the author, most recently, of Good Kids, a novel. He’s Director of Creative Writing at Southern New Hampshire University” From what I have been able to find about SNHU, it is, at best, primarily an on-line school. Consider your source. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/134 "2013-05-11T12:07:00Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Someone may have already pointed this out and I missed it. Sorry if this is a repeat. > > The author mentioned in the OP is not a psychotherapist (psychiatrist, psychologist, nurse therapist, or social worker. Yes, a psychiatrist is a psychotherapist too.) > > The man who wrote the work referred to in the OP is none of those. He is a creative writer. Beneath the title of his essay is is name link which leads to this: > > “Benjamin Nugent is the author, most recently, of Good Kids, a novel. He’s Director of Creative Writing at Southern New Hampshire University” > > From what I have been able to find about SNHU, it is, at best, primarily an on-line school. > > Consider your source. Do you think that someone without a degree is dumb. Edison, Ford, and many others produced more rational thought than the doctorate degree people that worked for them. The Internet is an excellent place to gain knowledge of the world and life itself. There is nothing wrong with on-line universities. You are just airing a prejudice. I worked at a hospital for many years and it was my job to visit every patient everyday to determine that patient’s status. There was a large mental ward in the hospital. Some days when I visited you couldn’t tell the patients from the psychiatrists because they loved to mimic the patients. Making fun of them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/135 "2013-05-11T18:12:31Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I worked at a hospital for many years and it was my job to visit every patient everyday to determine that patient’s status. There was a large mental ward in the hospital. Some days when I visited you couldn’t tell the patients from the psychiatrists because they loved to mimic the patients. Making fun of them. What was your job title? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/136 "2013-05-11T21:28:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What was your job title? I was on the Board of Directors ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/137 "2013-05-11T21:38:01Z")
A hospital had a member of the board of directors check every patient’s “status” every day and the staff didn’t know better to avoid mocking patients in front of him? Color me dubious. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/138 "2013-05-12T00:00:24Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > A hospital had a member of the board of directors check every patient’s “status” every day and the staff didn’t know better to avoid mocking patients in front of him? > > Color me dubious. The CEO was not about to fire a doctor, they were his source of income. I was on the Board as a staff member, I had many other jobs, in billing, in computers, I wrote articles for the hospital newspaper, I was on call 24/7 and spent a lot of time at the hospital. I helped in ER when some disaster was going on and I calmed patients and doctors when tempers flared. It was a small hospital, 211 beds, I was almost glad when it closed. I got some rest. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/139 "2013-05-12T02:34:05Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Someone may have already pointed this out and I missed it. Sorry if this is a repeat. > > The author mentioned in the OP is not a psychotherapist (psychiatrist, psychologist, nurse therapist, or social worker. Yes, a psychiatrist is a psychotherapist too.) > > The man who wrote the work referred to in the OP is none of those. He is a creative writer. Beneath the title of his essay is is name link which leads to this: > > “Benjamin Nugent is the author, most recently, of Good Kids, a novel. He’s Director of Creative Writing at Southern New Hampshire University” > > From what I have been able to find about SNHU, it is, at best, primarily an on-line school. > > Consider your source. The article writer is a journalist writing about a book by a psychotherapist and also asking questions about some of the issues the book raises. Where are you getting the notion that the author of the book being discussed is not a psychotherapist? Where was the writer of the article held out to be anything more than a journalist writing about the book and the author’s ideas re the current psychiatric diagnostic paradigm? [From the Penguin review](http://www.us.penguingroup.com/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,9780399158537,00.html) > [@](#): > > For more than two years, author and psychotherapist Gary Greenberg has embedded himself in the war that broke out over the fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders the DSM the American Psychiatric Associations compendium of mental illnesses and what Greenberg calls the book of woe. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596/140 "2013-05-12T04:26:26Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The CEO was not about to fire a doctor, they were his source of income. > I was on the Board as a staff member, I had many other jobs, in billing, in computers, I wrote articles for the hospital newspaper, I was on call 24/7 and spent a lot of time at the hospital. I helped in ER when some disaster was going on and I calmed patients and doctors when tempers flared. It was a small hospital, 211 beds, I was almost glad when it closed. I got some rest. You said you were on the board of directors. Were you actually one of the members of the board, or were you _staff_ for the board? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-psychiatry-dishonest-is-it-better-for-everyone-if-keeps-faking-diagnostic-assurance/657596.md?page=8)