# Is Publicly-Shaming A Miscreant On The Internet The Right Thing To Do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001 "2018-06-29T16:50:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/21 "2018-06-29T17:55:23Z")
> [@Skara\_Brae](#): > > “Permit Patty” states she didn’t call the cops on the girl selling water. She says she just pretended too in order to get her to stop. Oh Ok. I guess it’s all good then :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/22 "2018-06-29T19:29:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Your pearl-clutching suggests you want the rest of us to do something about it. Like haul the Twitterverse into trial or something. Well, yes. \*Stop fucking doing it. \* Generally, the facts and circumstances are not know. You get a twitter or a FB note or something, and then react before knowing what the truth is. Now, sure you can do anything about the asshole who starts the pillory, but you can stop sharing, at least. Calling him out on it could also be done. I do cite Snopes to people who spread lies already covered by Snopes. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/23 "2018-06-29T19:54:55Z")
I’m pretty sure the woman at the BBQ called the cops. I know that because the cops showed up in the video. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/24 "2018-06-29T20:06:54Z")
I’ve never done anything to be ashamed of, including that time I vomited on a koala. _Especially_ that time I vomited on a koala. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/25 "2018-06-29T20:18:35Z")
IMHO the death threats and threats of assault are wrong and should not be done. On the other hand, in a society that has free speech, this goes both ways, and the public at large are free to shame bigots who do these sorts of things. If we as a society don’t call out this type of behavior it will only embolden the bigots among us to behave even worse. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/26 "2018-06-29T20:52:46Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > They should be publicly shamed. Fuck those people. Anyone moronic enough to call the cops on a little girl selling lemonade deserves to be publicly shamed. I would agree with that if the consequences weren’t so permanent. This is especially true when all we see for years afterward is the video and not the background or the context leading up to it. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/27 "2018-06-29T21:42:18Z")
It’s much easier to control your own behavior and not be a complete and utter shitbag than it is to control the behavior of literally billions of people with access to the internet. Any “solution” that relies on this method is bound to fail. I’m an old white woman and have managed to go sixty years without calling the cops on a black kid who’s just doing what kids do–my own kids and grandkids have all had lemonade stands and sold drinks without a permit. I’ve also never called the cops on black folks having a fucking BBQ–but I have called on white men blowing off illegal fireworks in forests so I guess there’s that. I’m willing to risk my reputation and peace of mind that the majority of people who find out I’m willing to call cops on assholes trying to burn down forests will be totally on board with my POV. All that’s happening right now is that a bunch of Becky’s and Karen’s are of the opinion that everyone agrees with their POV and are being proven wrong. Boo fuckin’ hoo. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/28 "2018-06-29T21:55:11Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > So what’s your take on publicly-shaming people on the internet for offensive behavior? Along with ridicule, calling people on their actions - publicly shaming them - is pretty much the best way. Of course, you have to be confident those actions did actually take place - video helps a lot here. But you have to be careful. I remember a film which illustrated this. The first shot showed what appeared to be a thug (possibly denim-clad skinhead / punk) attacking an older gentleman; the second shot showed that the ‘thug’ was actually shoving the gentleman out of the way of a falling pallet of (IIRC) bricks. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/29 "2018-06-29T21:58:41Z")
[Permit Patty is in for even more raking over the coals of the internet, as she lied about never making the call and a news station has released the 911 tape](http://www.ktvu.com/news/listen-permit-patty-calls-911-on-little-girl-despite-claiming-she-never-did). So she’s not only a cunt, she’s a lying cunt. Who deserves whatever opprobrium she gets. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/30 "2018-06-29T23:04:10Z")
I don’t see any evidence the results are permanent. I’m pretty sure these people all find other jobs when things die down . And threats are crimes and should be reported and pursued. But I’m pretty sure it all amounts to not much more than lame internet harassment over a short time. Show me some cites for permanent damage if that’s the case. I find myself more concerned for the victim. ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/31 "2018-06-29T23:09:00Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I don’t see any evidence the results are permanent. I’m pretty sure these people all find other jobs when things die down . And threats are crimes and should be reported and pursued. But I’m pretty sure it all amounts to not much more than lame internet harassment over a short time. > > Show me some cites for permanent damage if that’s the case. > > I find myself more concerned for the victim. Jon Ronson’s book deals with many cases where there is long term damage done. One was a young woman who posted a jokey photo of her herself at Arlington. If I remember correctly, she couldn’t find a job in her choose field for years afterward. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/32 "2018-06-29T23:19:15Z")
I think it’s just like any other tool. When well-executed and targeted at people who deserve it, then it’s good. Even if it doesn’t make the offender feel any shame, it can make copy-cats have second thoughts about acting a fool in public. When poorly-executed and targeted at innocent people, it’s not good. I don’t agree with the idea that it’s always wrong. Nothing is ever “always” anything. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/33 "2018-06-29T23:20:48Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I don’t see any evidence the results are permanent. I’m pretty sure these people all find other jobs when things die down . And threats are crimes and should be reported and pursued. But I’m pretty sure it all amounts to not much more than lame internet harassment over a short time. > > Show me some cites for permanent damage if that’s the case. > > I find myself more concerned for the victim. > **[The price of public shaming in the Internet age | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/16/living/feat-public-shaming-ronson/index.html)** > > Do you believe in forgiveness? Do you believe in second chances? Maybe in person – but in the Internet era, it’s so easy to pile on and destroy people. _Take Victor Paul Alvarez. In January, the Boston reporter wrote a brief news story containing a bad joke about John Boehner. The wrath of social media fell on his head. Despite an apology, he was fired. Three months later, he’s still looking for full-time work. Or Adam Mark Smith? He was rude to a Chick-Fil-A worker on YouTube. Had to sell his house and move to a new city. Or Justine Sacco. She’s the public relations executive who tweeted, “Going to Africa. Hope I don’t get AIDS. Just kidding. I’m white!” T\*\*hanks to public shaming, she lost her job and was left wandering in the wilderness._ _On August 1, 2012, Smith posted a video of himself haranguing a Chick-fil-A employee at a drive-through. The chain had become a political football in the aftermath of an executive’s statements about gay marriage, and Smith didn’t like the stance. “I was thinking I was going to make a difference,” he told CNN._ … _The video went viral, and Smith – the CFO of a Tucson, Arizona-based medical device manufacturer – lost his well-paying job. That was bad enough, but things were going to get worse. Over the next 72 hours, his e-mail was filled with vitriolic threats. His personal information was released, including the address for his children’s school. Letters were nailed to his front door. …What’s been more discouraging has been how the episode has dogged him. On the advice of an attorney, he kept the incident private after taking a new job in Portland, Oregon, only to be asked to resign when the news got out. Since then, he’s been up-front with prospective employers and even been offered jobs, but before long, they pull back – even if they were initially OK with the information. It’s been rough, he says. “I went into depression, and I had to pull myself out of this place where I had to realize that that was not who I am,” he said. At one point, he says, he considered suicide. At least that way his family could be provided for._ > **['Sexism' Public-Shaming Via Twitter Leads To Two People Getting Fired...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/03/21/sexism-public-shaming-via-twitter-leads-to-two-people-getting-fired-including-the-shamer/#7c356c8517f0)** > > One tweet. Thousands of comments. Two people fired. Welcome to the digital age. _After news that the PlayHaven employee had lost his job over the “dongle and forking” jokes, social media users lashed out at Richards, harassing her and sending her threats. On Wednesday evening, they also went after her employer, subjecting the SendGrid site and servers to a distributed denial of service attack. The DDoS attack had the company up through the night trying to restore service for its customers. On Thursday morning, it announced it was resolving the issue in another way: it posted to Twitter, Facebook and the company blog that it was terminating Adria Richards._ So yeah, not only lose your job but your home, threats and not being able to ge a new job? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/34 "2018-06-29T23:22:01Z")
> **[The dangers of public shaming, mob justice and scolding on the internet](https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2014/01/dangers-public-shaming-mob-justice-and-scolding-internet)** > > Even when people are obviously wrong, is shaming them on the internet a good way to improve the world? ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/35 "2018-06-29T23:40:38Z")
Why do you get to decided who deserves it and who does not? If I have a different opinion of who deserves shaming who wins? Why stop with shaming videos that only some will see? Why not force the offenders to wear a scarlet A(sshole) when in in public? Many of you who are fine with shaming videos are not so fine with it when it’s done by teenagers - calling it cyber-bullying. . .what’s the difference? And if you don’t think cyber-bullying has long lasting or even permanent consequences then you aren’t paying attention. Most families these days require 2 paychecks to survive. By shaming someone into losing their job you are in effect punishing the rest of their family for their actions. Those of you who are so outraged at the current brouhaha surrounding punishing children for the decisions of their parents to come to this country without paperwork. how do you reconcile punishing the children of these “so called” assholes? Shaming videos are forever. whether or not they were justified, whether or not they’ve made amends. Where are the viral videos of the shamed realizing the errors of her ways and repenting and apologizing to those they have harmed? why don’t we get to see the rest of the story? They just get shamed forever? mc ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/36 "2018-06-30T01:09:30Z")
They don’t _have_ to move, and ‘couldn’t get a job for three months’, ain’t exactly the end of the world. I don’t see how it could be proven they didn’t move to escape the consequences of their own poor choices, not wanting to face the community etc. Most of that permanent damage and ongoing difficulty involve those who then fell into a depression. Because it’s life crushingly depressing to realize you just proudly and loudly showed the whole internet what a racist asshole you can be. If you do something so egregious that you have to change jobs and move communities, you have my sympathy because that righteously sucks. But society is not responsible to monitor the public response, unless laws are broken. The same freedom you were obnoxiously abusing is their’s to do the same. You chose this unfortunate course of action and it came with these unfortunate consequences. You were pretty cocky when you thought no one would see. You weren’t exactly holding back. Everyone of these people had the opportunity to back down when the camera came out. But you don’t ever see that. Because they are damn certain they’re perfectly entitled to be this asshole. Expecting people to then be tempered in their response is a pretty big ask I think of anonymous JQ Public. Actions have consequences, in the Internet age those can’t really be contained. How do they NOT know this in 2018? And if people still don’t get that’s how it is, how is coddling them for their ignorance an answer? Do I think people should call them mean names and threaten them and write their boss? I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t wish them ill. But exactly how do they NOT know that’s a possibility with this kind of behaviour? My sympathy still lies with the victims, I’m afraid. A society cool with a numerous black teenagers in jail as ‘consequence for his poor choices’, shouldn’t be losing its shit over a middle aged white woman getting upsetting messages and losing a job, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/37 "2018-06-30T01:24:43Z")
It depends on what the person did. I have very, very little sympathy for anyone who does something publicly and overtly racist or bigoted in some other way, and winds up being recorded and blasted online. They know what they are getting into by adopting that stance and as far as I’m concerned they are fair game. The lines get blurrier when we’re talking about someone who is _accused_ of something, but with no actual proof of it. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/38 "2018-06-30T02:27:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > _On August 1, 2012, Smith posted a video of himself haranguing a Chick-fil-A employee at a drive-through._ He was trying to publicly shame someone else, via YouTube, and it didn’t go anything like he expected. And look at him now: > **[His first protest ever cost him his career, reputation and sense of self |...](https://www.cbc.ca/radio/outintheopen/reputation-1.4589616/his-first-protest-ever-cost-him-his-career-reputation-and-sense-of-self-1.4596546)** > > When Adam Smith drove up to a Chick-fil-A drive through window and began arguing with an employee about LGBT rights, he thought he was doing something positive. But video of his protest soon went viral. And he went from being a CFO to being on food... > [@](#): > > Now, Smith lives with his family in Costa Rica and runs a healing centre. He says he doesn’t think he would be the person he is today if he had never posted that video of him protesting at Chick-fil-A. > > “This was such a gift that happened to me; this thrashing, this public shaming, this reputation dissolution that happened was the best thing I needed because I needed that humbleness, I needed to be humbled and nothing was going to humble me like that.” ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/39 "2018-06-30T02:49:36Z")
Agreed that it depends on exactly what the offense was. Merely being rude is not something I would get worked up about. The recent examples, however, are racist jerks, and IMHO that type of person doesn’t care about a mild tut-tutting, it takes genuine consequences to make them even think about what they did, or to prevent others of their kind from doing the same. Since being a racist is not illegal this is the next best thing we have. I will state, however that threats of physical harm and threats to relatives should not become part of the response, and should that occur they should be investigated and treated appropriately by law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001/40 "2018-06-30T04:17:40Z")
Mob justice is an oxymoron. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-publicly-shaming-a-miscreant-on-the-internet-the-right-thing-to-do/817001.md?page=3)