# Is Qantas the only carrier that runs US to Australia? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 6, 2006, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680 "2006-06-06T23:02:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/1 "2006-06-06T23:02:29Z")
I’ve been researching flights to Australia and it seems like Qantas is the only airlinethat runs the US to Australia route. Normally routes are served by airlines from the countries on both end. Like for US-UK, you have choices like Delta or Continental or Virgin or British Air. So what’s up with the Australia route? Is it just unprofitable for the US carriers to run it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/2 "2006-06-06T23:11:35Z")
United no longer flies to Oz? That’s the airline I took both times I went there. Last time, it was non-stop from SF!! ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/3 "2006-06-06T23:15:04Z")
Could it be that fewer airlines have planes capable of nonstop trans-Pacific flights, or even making trans-Pacific journeys that don’t entail _too_ many stops? I work just south of LAX and drive through the Sepulveda tunnel under the runways almost every workday. Often, in the morning, I see airplanes landing that have undoubtedly come from the other side of the Pacific Rim–I can tell that by the airlines–Korean, Thai, Singapore, JAL, and so on. Nearly all these aircraft happen to be late model 747s. I never see one of these planes in the colors of an American airline. Can it be that, possibly due to not wanting to purchase and maintain 747s, American airlines have partly abandoned the Pacific market to foreign carriers? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/4 "2006-06-06T23:25:30Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > United no longer flies to Oz? That’s the airline I took both times I went there. Last time, it was non-stop from SF!! As far as i know, United Still flies non-stop to Sydney out of both SFO and LAX. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/5 "2006-06-06T23:28:39Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > United no longer flies to Oz? That’s the airline I took both times I went there. Last time, it was non-stop from SF!! Ah yes. Interesting. I think I missed United because I’m actually trying to get to Brisbane, and they don’t seem to have any partners that will make the connection to there from Sydney or wherever they fly into. You type in BNE and it denies there are any flights. Strange, since the town is on their route map. (This also points out that non-stop isn’t **that** fabulous. Nonstop to Sydney and then a flight to Brisbane is basically the same as a nonstop to Auckland, NZ and then to Brisbane. Still one stopover.) ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/6 "2006-06-06T23:39:47Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Could it be that fewer airlines have planes capable of nonstop trans-Pacific flights, or even making trans-Pacific journeys that don’t entail _too_ many stops? > > I work just south of LAX and drive through the Sepulveda tunnel under the runways almost every workday. Often, in the morning, I see airplanes landing that have undoubtedly come from the other side of the Pacific Rim–I can tell that by the airlines–Korean, Thai, Singapore, JAL, and so on. Nearly all these aircraft happen to be late model 747s. I never see one of these planes in the colors of an American airline. > > Can it be that, possibly due to not wanting to purchase and maintain 747s, American airlines have partly abandoned the Pacific market to foreign carriers? I thought that airlines in general were beefing up their long-distance non-stops. Certainly Air Canada has fairly recently added non-stops from Toronto to Tokyo, Delhi, Shanghai and Beijing. Are US airlines not doing this? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/7 "2006-06-07T00:02:34Z")
> [@SmackFu](#): > > So what’s up with the Australia route? Is it just unprofitable for the US carriers to run it? It’s not just a question of profitability; it’s a question of government policy and political pressure. Last i heard—and i haven’t read much about this for a few years—Australia lags considerably behind a lot of other countries in terms of its involvement in bilateral aviation agreements, and this is especially true for the big airports like Sydney and Melbourne, and is even more true of the trans-Pacific routes. Qantas guards the route like a bulldog, opposing attempts to open it up to other airlines. Qantas and United are the only two airlines that serve the direct US-Australia market. Air New Zealand used to have direct flights between Australia and New Zealand, but dropped out some years back. Ah, now some Googling has turned up some documents on this. A few years ago, Singapore Airlines applied to the be allowed to serve the US-Australia route. After some stalling and hemming and hawing, the Australian government finally, in February of this year, denied Singapre the right to fly the trans-Pacific route. Strongly opposing Singapore’s application were both Qantas and Virgin Blue—the latter apparently because it feels that, as an Australian carrier, it should get preference. Here’s part of the Australian government’s [announcement](http://parlinfoweb.aph.gov.au/piweb/Repository1/Media/pressrel/MPTI60.pdf) (pdf): > [@](#): > > Mr Truss said that on the issue of access to the Australia-USA ‘Pacific route’, the Australian Government may in the future negotiate access to the route on a case-by-case basis where it is in the national interest and where we can gain benefits to Australia. > > “In terms of Singapore Airlines request for access to the Pacific route, the Government has decided not to grant access at the present time. If access is negotiated in the future, it will be limited and phased. We would not envisage Singapore airlines operating on the route for some years. > > Mr Truss said this timeframe would allow Virgin the opportunity to develop its stated plans for the route. > > **“There is already plenty of scope for competition on the route, with any US or New Zealand airline, along with those of a number of countries, able to commence at any time,” he said.** > > Mr Truss said the Australian Government had also considered Qantas’ request for changes to the Qantas Sale Act in relation to its ownership rules and has decided not to make any changes. Bolding mine. So, looking at this quote, it appears that other US carriers _could_ have direct flights to Australia if they wanted to, but they must feel that it’s not really worthwhile. It’s not just a case of the flights themselves; there’s also the airport access issue that i mentioned above. I found an [Australian Parliamentary Library Report](http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/RB/2005-06/06rb14.htm) on liberalisation of international air travel, and it had this to say about airport access: > [@](#): > > With respect to airport efficiency, the Commission found that: > > … there is still significant scope to increase efficiency through greater use of market mechanisms. > > These mechanisms include peak-load pricing, and markets for landing and take-off slots and terminal facilities. Peak-load pricing is a means of rationing demand whereby airport charges are higher at peak than off-peak periods. For example, in the United kingdom, BAA levies different landing charges in peak, shoulder and off-peak times at Heathrow and Gatwick airports in the United Kingdom.(25) No Australian international airport now applies peak-load pricing, which is a common in public transport and the electricity industry. > > With respect to slots, it has been argued that: > > Economic efficiency … requires slots to be allocated among carriers in such a way that they serve those passengers or shippers of freight who value them most highly. > > Sydney Airport fails this criterion. **The Commission found that the system of slot allocation—slots were initially allocated to airlines on the basis of the services that they operated in 1997—entrenches incumbent airlines, and that peak-period slots that incumbents hold are generally not available to new entrants (slot constraints apply mainly at peak times).** It seems unlikely that the Government will change the slot system greatly if at all. Bolding mine again. It seems that conditions at Sydney Airport greatly favor airlines that have been landing there for a long time, and make it difficult for new contenders to gain access. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/8 "2006-06-07T00:04:18Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Could it be that fewer airlines have planes capable of nonstop trans-Pacific flights, or even making trans-Pacific journeys that don’t entail _too_ many stops? > > I work just south of LAX and drive through the Sepulveda tunnel under the runways almost every workday. Often, in the morning, I see airplanes landing that have undoubtedly come from the other side of the Pacific Rim–I can tell that by the airlines–Korean, Thai, Singapore, JAL, and so on. Nearly all these aircraft happen to be late model 747s. I never see one of these planes in the colors of an American airline. > > Can it be that, possibly due to not wanting to purchase and maintain 747s, American airlines have partly abandoned the Pacific market to foreign carriers? United Airlines has a huge trans-Pacific operation, and Northwest Airlines a fairly large one. Ed ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/9 "2006-06-07T02:03:39Z")
Interesting stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/10 "2006-06-07T02:20:53Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Air New Zealand used to have direct flights between Australia and New Zealand, but dropped out some years back. Yep, nowadays they go via LAX. 😉 (you mean USA/Australia, I assume). ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/11 "2006-06-07T02:26:02Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Yep, nowadays they go via LAX. 😉 > > (you mean USA/Australia, I assume). :smack: Yep. ---
**Author:** ![northern\_canuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@northern\_canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/northern_canuck)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/12 "2006-06-07T04:52:25Z")
As pointed out earlier, Quantas is being protected on its N.Am route. You do have some choices though. United flies Australia direct LAX or brief stopover in Honolulu out of San Francisco. Air Canada flies out of Vancouver BC with a short stop over in Honolulu (45 minutes) and is a co-share partner with United. You can go on Air New Zealand via Auckland. Air New Zealand offers some pretty good rates via iternet on their N.Am site. Singapore Airlines offers some good rates too but it is a longer hop using them. Try Flight Centre (they are a huge Australian company) for fares as they have volumn deals. (You can Google them…be sure to specify ‘Flight Centre USA’ or you will get a multitude of international offices). ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/13 "2006-06-07T05:04:36Z")
My mother’s been to the US from Australia a few times, and IIRC she flies using JAL or whatever the Korean airline is. They have layovers in Japan or Korea, but she gets where she’s going. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/14 "2006-06-07T13:11:39Z")
Air New Zealand via Auckland might be worth looking in to. If you don’t want the cheapest seat, they have a new [Premium Economy](http://www.airnewzealand.com.au/travelinfo/ontheplane/premium_economy/default.htm#seat) product that provides more leg room and better service. It is marketed to those who want something a bit nicer than economy, but can’t afford business class. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/15 "2006-06-07T13:14:39Z")
> [@Sierra Indigo](#): > > My mother’s been to the US from Australia a few times, and IIRC she flies using JAL or whatever the Korean airline is. They have layovers in Japan or Korea, but she gets where she’s going. [Korean Air](http://www.koreanair.com/)? JAL is Japan Airlines. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/16 "2006-06-07T13:25:26Z")
I fly between the US and Australia quite frequently. The first time was in 1993, when I fle NorthWestern from Sydney to Detroit via Osaka. However, NorthWesten no longer flies into Australia. Since then I’ve usually used United, but occasionally have used Air New Zealand. American Airlines appears to fly from LAX to SYD, but those flights are code-shares with Qantas: they are really Qantas flights. ---
**Author:** ![rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/919ad9/32.png) [@rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/17 "2006-06-07T14:20:52Z")
UA has a flight to BNE. I used 20 aug as the dept. date and it gave me a flight via Sydney. As for other airlines, there are actually a crapload of carriers offering fares. Mind you a lot of them are co sharing with Qantas, wich means that technically even if you are still flying on a QF airplane it is a AA ticket (for example). There are also a bunch of European carriers offering fares, via europe so it may just extend travel times a wee bit 😛 but still technically available. What’s your routing, maybe I can give you some help/suggestions. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/18 "2006-06-07T15:06:48Z")
That’s code-share service via Auckland on Air New Zealand, one of UA’s partners in the Star Alliance. UA itself doesn’t serve Brisbane. ---
**Author:** ![rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/919ad9/32.png) [@rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/19 "2006-06-07T17:50:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That’s code-share service via Auckland on Air New Zealand, one of UA’s partners in the Star Alliance. UA itself doesn’t serve Brisbane. You’re right in that it’s a coshare, but direct flight LAX-SYD then swapping to a Virgin Blue Airlines flight SYD-BNE. I’m certain that it varies depending on dates though. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2006, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680/20 "2006-06-07T18:08:47Z")
I thought that there was a rule in the States that flights operated by companies in foreign countries (or even those operated by US companies) must have either the destination or origination stop be in that country. Meaning that JAL could fly from Osaka to LAX, or Brisbane to Osaka to LAX, or LAX to Osaka to Melbourne, but a JAL nonstop flight from Sydney to LAX wouldn’t be allowed. Likewise, a Northwest flight couldn’t fly from Toronto to Heathrow without stopping somewhere in the States inbetween. Is this indeed a rule? If it is, that might explain some of it. When I flew to Australia, it was United through San Francisco. But that only got me to Sydney - had to take another flight to get to Perth. There weren’t any nonstops from SF to Perth. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-qantas-the-only-carrier-that-runs-us-to-australia/359680.md?page=2)