# Is quoting the contents of a PM against the "rules?" **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 30, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811 "2009-07-30T21:33:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/1 "2009-07-30T21:33:05Z")
As it appears to be buried among the wreckage of the threads over **Seven** ’s punishment, I thought it should be pulled out into its own discussion. Specifically: is it against the “rules” of this Board to quote the contents of a PM you have received without first obtaining the permission of the person who sent it to you? It has been suggested that it is a potential copyright violation issue, though I tend to think that’s a bit of a copout, and rarely likely to be applicable to short excisions. It is possible that it is a case of “depends.” Personally, I’d be much happier with a lot more action focused on the result of what is done rather than a bunch of itemized offenses. But it would be important to know if there is a blanket rule regarding this situation. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/2 "2009-07-30T22:05:49Z")
For starters, here is a mish-mash of different thoughts on it: a) As a courtesy , the privacy of PMs needs to be respected. PM’s should be private unless the sender has given permission to share. b) People who rely on a ‘courtesy’ rule do so at their peril. It’s unwise to encourage people to think they can say what they want in a PM. They should take responsibility for the PMs they send. Anything sent by email and/or PM has the possibility of being revealed. c) A ‘flaming’ PM doesn’t deserve the same consideration as a ‘normal’ PM. ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/3 "2009-07-30T22:16:40Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > As it appears to be buried among the wreckage of the threads over **Seven** ’s punishment, I thought it should be pulled out into its own discussion. > > Specifically: is it against the “rules” of this Board to quote the contents of a PM you have received without first obtaining the permission of the person who sent it to you? > > It has been suggested that it is a potential copyright violation issue, though I tend to think that’s a bit of a copout, and rarely likely to be applicable to short excisions. > > It is possible that it is a case of “depends.” Personally, I’d be much happier with a lot more action focused on the result of what is done rather than a bunch of itemized offenses. > > But it would be important to know if there is a blanket rule regarding this situation. You’ve been here about a year longer than me. Long enough to **know** that if you post a derogatory pm from **Tuba** , that shit will hit the fan and then hit you, so regardless of whether or not the mods tell you it is or is not against the rules, THAT’S what’s gonna make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/4 "2009-07-30T23:20:39Z")
It’s a PRIVATE Message, so hell yes, you may not \*post \*it without permission. :mad: Come on, we all know that, it’s just common sense. I mean, do you have to post a rule “no chicken plucking in the bathroom”? In some cases it could be OK to quote a portion of it in a PM to another member or Staffer, but it’s never OK to POST it. (I’d say a threat could be forwarded to a staff member, for example) ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/5 "2009-07-30T23:25:07Z")
That’s just your opinion on etiquette, nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/6 "2009-07-30T23:29:45Z")
Staff are bound by privacy agreements, so they may not publicly disseminate any official correspondence to the board as a whole. Members are not bound by such privacy rules, so any PM is fair game. Divulging the content of a PM from another member is ‘being a jerk’. Divulging the content of a PM from staff is necessary for transparency. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/7 "2009-07-30T23:32:30Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Staff are bound by privacy agreements, so they may not publicly disseminate any official correspondence to the board as a whole. Members are not bound by such privacy rules, so any PM is fair game. Divulging the content of a PM from another member is ‘being a jerk’. Divulging the content of a PM from staff is necessary for transparency. Staff are posters too. And, if the staffer can not disclose the PM that led to the reply, there’s no “transparency”. We call it “out of context”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/8 "2009-07-30T23:33:54Z")
Staff are not ‘posters’ when they are acting in an official capacity. If a poster quotes a PM from staff, then there is no reason that I can see that the staff member can’t respond. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/9 "2009-07-30T23:40:34Z")
Do you read other people’s mail and listen in on other people’s phone calls? With rare exceptions I’d say it’s never okay to post a private message from someone else. Whether or not it’s considered a standalone rule here, and I believe it has been, I think it indisputably falls under being a jerk. And that includes any and all PMs from staff. If a mod messages you, it is not “necessary for transparency” to post it and I don’t recall being asked to surrender my expectation of privacy upon taking the position. And frankly I don’t think anybody really needs to be told this. That’s one mod’s opinion on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/10 "2009-07-30T23:41:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It’s a PRIVATE Message, so hell yes, you may not \*post \*it without permission. :mad: > > Come on, we all know that, it’s just common sense. I mean, do you have to post a rule “no chicken plucking in the bathroom”? > > In some cases it could be OK to quote a portion of it in a PM to another member or Staffer, but it’s never OK to POST it. (I’d say a threat could be forwarded to a staff member, for example) Your point of view is bullshit. Extreme and _stupid_ bullshit. Sticking the word “PRIVATE” on hate-mail doesn’t make it actually private. And before you start going on about how I’m just taking Seven’s side, [I’ve been arguing against this “You have to bend over and take abuse just 'cause it was sent ‘privately’” point for about 9 years.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=512750) Letting abusive people hide their abusive behavior just because they send it to you as “private” is a terrible idea. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/11 "2009-07-30T23:57:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Do you read other people’s mail and listen in on other people’s phone calls? You should hold on to that question in case anyone suggests intercepting a private message between two other people, as it would actually have some relevance then. A better question might be, “Do you sometimes tell people things that other people have said to you?” Well, yeah, I guess sometimes I do. Don’t you? > [@](#): > > I think it indisputably falls under being a jerk. It’s certainly disputable. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/12 "2009-07-31T00:01:24Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > You should hold on to that question in case anyone suggests intercepting a private message between two other people, as it would actually have some relevance then. While it’s not an exact analogy I think it applies: when someone tells you something in a letter, they are telling it _to you_, and in most cases you would be violating their confidence if you went out into the street and yelled the contents to the neighbors. I think posting a PM shows the same amount of consideration for somebody else’s privacy. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/13 "2009-07-31T00:11:04Z")
You’re avoiding the difference between totally outrageous hate-e-mails and normal e-mails. If David Duke or Fred Phelps sent me a personal “You’re going to hell you fucking Jew” e-mail, I’d be gleefully sharing it with the world (And no, before some half-wit pops in, what Tuba said to Seven was not at that level of nasty. But there’s a continuum and as far as I’m concerned, “You’re a worthless poster with nothing to contribute” or whatever the specific phrase was is pretty damned close to the “no reasonable expectation of privacy” line.) If someone throws a rock through your window with “You’re a useless piece of garbage who’s stinking up the neighborhood. Get lost!”, they don’t have any expectation of privacy either. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/14 "2009-07-31T00:16:08Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > You’re avoiding the difference between totally outrageous hate-e-mails and normal e-mails. I don’t think I’m overlooking it, I think you’re inventing it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/15 "2009-07-31T00:18:14Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > You’re avoiding the difference between totally outrageous hate-e-mails and normal e-mails. > > If David Duke or Fred Phelps sent me a personal “You’re going to hell you fucking Jew” e-mail, I’d be gleefully sharing it with the world > > (And no, before some half-wit pops in, what Tuba said to Seven was not at that level of nasty. But there’s a continuum and as far as I’m concerned, “You’re a worthless poster with nothing to contribute” or whatever the specific phrase was is pretty damned close to the “no reasonable expectation of privacy” line.) > > . I made an exception for threats, perhaps an exception could be made for true hate-speech. But neither of these are the case here, so why the apoplexy ? The problem of saying it’s OK for a poster to quote and not for a staffer, is that we don’t know what the poster said then, nor do we know everyhing the staffer said. It’s out of context. Perhaps the staffer said “I am not going to say “You’re a worthless poster with nothing to contribute” but you have come very close in you recent postings”. Or the poster said "“are you saying I’m a worthless poster with nothing to contribute” and the staffer said “_No, I am not saying_ you’re a worthless poster with nothing to contribute”. In any case, shy of hate speech and threats, a PM is private. ---
**Author:** ![Library\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cab0a1/32.png) [@Library\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Library_Boy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/16 "2009-07-31T00:19:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Do you read other people’s mail and listen in on other people’s phone calls? > > With rare exceptions I’d say it’s never okay to post a private message from someone else. Whether or not it’s considered a standalone rule here, and I believe it has been, I think it indisputably falls under being a jerk. And that includes any and all PMs from staff. If a mod messages you, it is not “necessary for transparency” to post it and I don’t recall being asked to surrender my expectation of privacy upon taking the position. And frankly I don’t think anybody really needs to be told this. > > That’s one mod’s opinion on the subject. 1. is this just PM’s or e-mails also? 2. Is it just PM’s and e-mails from people on this board? 3. If it is not just PM’s or e-mails from people on this board, should we report every post on here that someone has quoted from an e-mail they got? 4. I asked this before, but I don’t think I got an answer, and I will rephrase it - Have you ever forwarded a non-work e-mail without first getting the permission of the original sender? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/17 "2009-07-31T00:25:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t think I’m overlooking it, I think you’re inventing it. Cool–if I’m “inventing” the concept of hate-emails and since there have been numerous whiny posts by mods plaintively saying that you’re all held to a higher standard than the posters, you’re giving me permission to post stuff comparable to what Tuba wrote to Seven in ATMB? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/18 "2009-07-31T00:30:53Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Letting abusive people hide their abusive behavior just because they send it to you as “private” is a terrible idea. This. Ought to be THE guiding principle in deciding this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/19 "2009-07-31T01:21:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > While it’s not an exact analogy I think it applies: when someone tells you something in a letter, they are telling it _to you_, and in most cases you would be violating their confidence if you went out into the street and yelled the contents to the neighbors. I think posting a PM shows the same amount of consideration for somebody else’s privacy. I certainly understand where you’re coming from, and I appreciate that people send PMs precisely because they feel the contents are not suitable for board comment, but, on the other hand, it is hard to swallow that someone could unilaterally bind a person to secrecy just by sending a PM. We just have to accept that we cannot control whether someone is going to relay the information we pass on to them. I suppose the board could insta-ban those who post PMs, but to my mind, the benefits of preventing unilateral secrecy outweighs the costs of having to consider the trustworthiness of the PM recipient and the need to choose our words carefully so that they don’t come back to haunt us. This is the solution we’ve adopted in the real world, and although internet message boards are serious business, if it works IRL, I think it won’t be too much of a disaster here on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811/20 "2009-07-31T01:39:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > While it’s not an exact analogy I think it applies: when someone tells you something in a letter, they are telling it _to you_, and in most cases you would be violating their confidence if you went out into the street and yelled the contents to the neighbors. I think posting a PM shows the same amount of consideration for somebody else’s privacy. Is there a rule against it or not? I understand that you believe it to be rude behavior but the question in the OP is whether or not it’s against the rules. If it is against the rules, how far does it go? PMs from anyone on the SDMB? PMs from staff? Can a rude PM be posted if we don’t tell who it was from? What about a Pit thread about a rude email from a co-worker? Can we post the contents of that? What if the co-worker also happens to post here? Personally, I think that if a member of the SDMB staff PMs something so incredibly unprofessional and rude as what **Seven** received on a regular basis, it shows a fundamental incompetence and _should_ be shared. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-quoting-the-contents-of-a-pm-against-the-rules/504811.md?page=2)