# Is Rachel Maddow right about Herman Cain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156 "2011-11-07T11:18:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/41 "2011-11-08T01:33:22Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Well, you say that now. Wait until somebody else hops to the top of the hill and implodes the next week. There’s nobody else left. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/42 "2011-11-08T01:41:46Z")
Santorum is crazy enough to hit the big time. Huntsman is smart enough, except that he might out-Romney Romney. And then there’s Newt. Hence the news stories. The base needs a Great Anti-Romney Hope. With Newt, he can even be white! Though he’s been looking a little gray in recent years. ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/43 "2011-11-08T01:41:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And none of those guys are going to have a turn. Nobody thought Cain was going to have a turn either, until he did. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/44 "2011-11-08T01:43:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There’s nobody else left. Sure there is. There’s still time for Alan Keyes to jump in and make the inevitable fool of himself. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/45 "2011-11-08T01:44:24Z")
This is the break the McCain campaign has been waiting for! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/46 "2011-11-08T01:51:47Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Santorum is crazy enough to hit the big time. He’s plenty crazy, but he’s also very old news. Sort of like Gingrich except without the intellectual bona fides, the soundbytes, or the ability to make anyone notice he exists. > [@](#): > > Huntsman is smart enough, except that he might out-Romney Romney. Nobody except journalists has ever warmed to Huntsman for a single second. He is polling slightly above Buddy Roemer and Gary Johnson. > [@](#): > > And then there’s Newt. Hence the news stories. The news stories are the expression of a desperate hope that someone more interesting than Romney will come along. The problem is that several of these “interesting” people already came and went, and Romney is still there. When you’re playing musical chairs, eventually the music stops. Cain is polling pretty well but he’s taking a huge beating and has no organization. Perry looked exciting for a while but the combination of the hunting camp thing and wrong answers on some red meat questions sunk him. Nobody else has the money or organization. ---
**Author:** ![Da\_Mikster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Da\_Mikster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Da_Mikster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/47 "2011-11-08T01:57:20Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > But there’s also … Huntsman… Jon Huntsman won’t get to be flavor of the week. Let’s look at it seriously: 1. He’s another Mormon. 2. He’s basically informed the fringe right (who have greater control in the primaries) that he disagrees with them on too many things. - like science. 3. He’s a Mormon. 4. He speaks articulately, intelligently and rationally, but doesn’t inspire much passion. 5. He’s a Mormon. 6. While to the right of Reagan, he’s the farthest centrist of the current bunch. 7. He’s still a Mormon. 8. He’s got too much experience with China, and you can’t trust them furriners. 9. Did I mention he’s Mormon? 10. He’s willing to work WITH the Democrats and others to get things done. 11. Seriously, it’s that whole Mormon thing, they’re a cult, doncha know… Yes, it sounds stupid, but the far right is actually willing, nay eager, to toss out their best chance at getting the independent votes for the sake of ‘party purity’. When God is on your side, compromise is a pact with the devil. Well, that and the Koch Brothers and Heritage Foundation types don’t think he’s controllable enough. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/48 "2011-11-08T02:05:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > … > The news stories are the expression of a desperate hope that someone more interesting than Romney will come along. … Yes, of course. They far right would rather have anybody else, and Huntsman, Santorum and Newt are the only one who haven’t ridden the crest for a while. Though I suppose it could be argued that Newt had his moment earlier when his whole campaign staff quit and that stuff came out about his account at Tiffany’s. > [@Da\_Mikster](#): > > Jon Huntsman won’t get to be flavor of the week. Let’s look at it seriously: 1. He’s another Mormon. 2. He’s basically informed the fringe right (who have greater control in the primaries) that he disagrees with them on too many things. - like science. 3. He’s a Mormon. 4. He speaks articulately, intelligently and rationally, but doesn’t inspire much passion. 5. He’s a Mormon. 6. While to the right of Reagan, he’s the farthest centrist of the current bunch. 7. He’s still a Mormon. 8. He’s got too much experience with China, and you can’t trust them furriners. 9. Did I mention he’s Mormon? 10. He’s willing to work WITH the Democrats and others to get things done. 11. Seriously, it’s that whole Mormon thing, they’re a cult, doncha know… > > Yes, it sounds stupid, but the far right is actually willing, nay eager, to toss out their best chance at getting the independent votes for the sake of ‘party purity’. When God is on your side, compromise is a pact with the devil. Well, that and the Koch Brothers and Heritage Foundation types don’t think he’s controllable enough. I agree with this too, so he might not get his week on the spotlight. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/49 "2011-11-08T02:12:26Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > They far right would rather have anybody else, and Huntsman, Santorum and Newt are the only one who haven’t ridden the crest for a while. Though I suppose it could be argued that Newt had his moment earlier when his whole campaign staff quit and that stuff came out about his account at Tiffany’s. You forgot about the time when he denounced Paul Ryan’s Medicare plan (which absolutely nobody likes except far-right GOP primary voters). Those three aren’t going to get a turn. The reason they haven’t connected with the base yet is that they’re never going to. They’re too flawed. The far right voters can only choose from the people who are running, and only one candidate is running a campaign that is even a little bit credible. Since they’re choosing by process of elimination, I’ll say that it’s not Gingrich, Pawlenty, Huntsman, Romer, Perry, Johnson, Santorum, Bachmann, Paul, Christie, or Cain. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/50 "2011-11-08T02:19:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You forgot about the time when he denounced Paul Ryan’s Medicare plan (which absolutely nobody likes except far-right GOP primary voters). Those three aren’t going to get a turn. The reason they haven’t connected with the base yet is that they’re never going to. They’re too flawed. The far right voters can only choose from the people who are running, and only one candidate is running a campaign that is even a little bit credible. Since they’re choosing by process of elimination, I’ll say that it’s not Gingrich, Pawlenty, Huntsman, Romer, Perry, Johnson, Santorum, Bachmann, Paul, Christie, or Cain. No no no. They’re just politely waiting their turn! 😛 I wish I had thought to run. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/51 "2011-11-08T03:34:52Z")
All of this has made clear that the Republican party is just as fucked up and discombobulated as the Democrats have been for the last thirty years. Clearly, it is now time for the Great Cthulhu to reign supreme. Why vote for the lesser evil? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/52 "2011-11-08T23:34:27Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > But there’s also still Santorum and Huntsman, neither of whom has had a turn yet. Santorum has the “Google” problem, and Huntsman could only win a Republican primary written by Aaron Sorkin. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/53 "2011-11-08T23:40:30Z")
I’m not saying they’ll win, I’m just saying they’re don’t have Romney cooties. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/54 "2011-11-09T00:25:53Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > So you’re saying Herman Cain is one of the Producers ? [A-hem!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14421985&postcount=24) ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/55 "2011-11-09T03:08:15Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Santorum has the “Google” problem, and Huntsman **could only win a Republican primary written by Aaron Sorkin.** Thank you for posting this. I think you nailed him perfectly. John Huntsman **is** Alan Alda’s Arnold Vinick character in the last season of _The West Wing_. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/56 "2011-11-09T05:07:59Z")
Cain’s been doing something right. Damn if I haven’t been dying for a Godfather’s pizza for about a month. The secret is that he amassed a ton of Godfather’s penny stock and is just waiting for the price to explode. He’ll be sitting on mountain of cash and wiping his ass with remaindered copies of his book. (Wait, was this 9-9-9 deal originally a pizza promotion? I just blew this thing wide open!) ---
**Author:** ![ProbablyProcrastinating](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/57b2e6/32.png) [@ProbablyProcrastinating](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProbablyProcrastinating)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/57 "2011-11-09T05:54:10Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Santorum has the “Google” problem, and Huntsman could only win a Republican primary written by Aaron Sorkin. I know it’s petty, but I remember reading Dan Savage’s first article proposing that Google campaign and seeing this post fills me with glee. Viral marketing (albeit extremely negative) at its best. To answer the original question, though, I think this part is key: > [@](#): > > the only problem here is that she doesn’t draw much of distinction between satire/performance art and just plain crazy/delusional people. And I guess I would say, I think she might be assuming it’s a pretty faint line. > [@](#): > > if there’s too much to read or something. He might just not read it, right? He can just sign his name at the end. On another note… I’ve never seen her show, but damn that woman is irritating. Geeeehhhhhhhhhh. We should have known at Pokemon, I GOT IT. Jesus. How many times can you say each phrase? This is why we don’t have cable. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/58 "2011-11-09T06:06:27Z")
I guess the question I have and that no one so far has addressed is this - if you are running a serious race for the Presidential nomination of a major political party, how do you end up letting your candidate quote something (a “poet”) that ends up being the theme song to the Pokemon movie? WTF? Are we supposed to think they were so dumb they didn’t see how stupid that was? Are we supposed to think they are convinced we are all so dumb no one would ever figure it out? Or is this all some sick joke? If it ends up that Cain and his campaign are really playing a joke on the American people with all the odd quotes, SimCity tax plans and truly bizarre television ads, then this will go down in history as THE most amazing prank ever. Unfortunately I suspect they aren’t doing this on purpose. I imagine it more likely they are just inept on a mind boggling scale. What that says about the American public and their willingness to take someone like Cain seriously is far too depressing for me to consider. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/59 "2011-11-09T11:04:33Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Unfortunately I suspect they aren’t doing this on purpose. I imagine it more likely they are just inept on a mind boggling scale. What that says about the American public and their willingness to take someone like Cain seriously is far too depressing for me to consider. I’m usually right there with Maddow. Her analyses are “usually” on target, although she’s had a few slips here and there for which she’s either apologized or reconsidered her position. That stated, I’m with you on this. I think Maddow, and others, are giving Cain and camp too much credit. I really do believe he is as uninformed/unsavvy as it seems improbable for him to be. Cain probably either heard the Pokimon quote second-hand, thought it sounded great, presumed it attributable to some deep thinker and, therefore, quotable, or knew the origin and decided to use it anyway believing his audience too stupid to make the connection. Cain or, more than likely, a member of his team, probably did get 9-9-9 from Sim City. I mean it’s not as though the corollaries aren’t a bit too coincidental. However, I don’t think they deeply analyzed the Sim City tax structure and adjusted it to apply to the real world; I believe it was a simple appropriation of what they thought was an easily scalable, easily understandable concept no one had ever before proposed that they wouldn’t have to spend too much time massaging and explaining. In other words they were lazy. Again, I think the Cain camp believed their audience too stupid to make the connection or, less likely, that Cain wouldn’t be around long enough for it to matter. One thing Cain and camp are smart enough to realize, or have simply come to realize, is that likely Republican primary voters are looking for ideological purity in their candidate, not great intellect, which is why Cain can be all over the map and respond nonsensically when questioned on his position on abortion. As long as he ends the discussion with “I’m pro life” that’s all his audience will hear and believe. With all of that, Cain is simply another actor in the ensemble cast of the Off-Broadway play called Romney. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156/60 "2011-11-09T14:30:37Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > (Wait, was this 9-9-9 deal originally a pizza promotion? I just blew this thing wide open!) Jon Huntsman beat you to it. We’re on to you, Herman Cain! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rachel-maddow-right-about-herman-cain/602156.md?page=4)