# Is Radical Islam in the Minority among Muslims?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [January 1, 2008, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938 "2008-01-01T23:16:54Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/41 "2008-01-02T22:23:29Z")
I think it is a reasonable question for a person to ask if he is unfamiliar with Islam. If Jews had massacred thousands in London, Madrid, New York, and Washington — all the while bragging that G-d would reward them for their deed — it would be a fair question to ask of them as well. How is a person going to learn about these things if he is muted from even asking?
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/42 "2008-01-02T22:25:08Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
Rubbish.
Uhhh…that I was asking a question of you? I was genuinely not putting words into your mouth.
My point was that your alarm at the quarter **b** illion Muslims who sometimes support terrorism needs to be seen in context of the one and a half billion Muslims alive.
Daniel
[/QUOTE]
No it doesn’t. The reality is that the vast majority of people in the world are politically inactive, they get up go to work and that’s about it. I don’t see a Muslim Ghandi out there mobilizing a following. I do see Hezbollah in Lebanon supported by Syria and Iran. I do see radical Wahabism dominant in Saudi Arabia. I do read reports about funding from the Emir of Qatar, and Saudi Royal Family for terrorism. I do hear about training in Waziristan. I do hear about mass murder in the Sudan. I do hear about terrorism in Nigeria. The average American citizen is politically irrelevant, and that’s in a democracy, doubly so in a country that isn’t a democracy. So kudos to those 1.5 billion Muslims out there who aren’t into suicide bombing, may they have the strength to lead a righteous life. I am sure that they are the salt of the Earth, lovely people. That doesn’t change the fact that it only takes a couple of people to pull off a suicide bombing, and there are a quarter billion out there who support it as a tactic. I never argued that it was a majority, only that it was a significant minority.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/43 "2008-01-02T22:26:35Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal]
I think it is a reasonable question for a person to ask if he is unfamiliar with Islam. If Jews had massacred thousands in London, Madrid, New York, and Washington — all the while bragging that G-d would reward them for their deed — it would be a fair question to ask of them as well. How is a person going to learn about these things if he is muted from even asking?
[/QUOTE]
Thanks. 😉
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/44 "2008-01-02T22:30:29Z")
[QUOTE=mswas]
I never argued that it was a majority, only that it was a significant minority.
[/QUOTE]
For pity’s sake, the title of the thread shows doubt about whether they’re a minority. That was the point I was making. **Aquila Be** is part of a tradition that’s well-bolstered by bin Laden, a tradition of people who are to Islam what Henry Ford was to Judaism.
I’m not saying you’re part of that tradition; I’m saying that you need to be aware of that tradition and not be gulled by it.
**Liberal** , yes, ignorance needs to be fought, and as I said, there’s a clear negative answer to the question. There’s also the ignorance of the less-than-pure motives of folks who imply that Muslims are a majority-terrorist group; I want folks to be aware of the anti-Muslim bigots and the nature of their propaganda.
**mswas** doesn’t seem to be such a bigot, but I’m not sure he is aware of that tradition. If he were, I’m not sure he would have titled the thread as he did.
Daniel
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/45 "2008-01-02T22:37:03Z")
**Left Hand of Dorkness** I’m already aware of the arguments, but I am learning a lot from the thread. I admit I should’ve phrased the OP better. That’s what I get for posting without hitting Preview. 😉 I was saying in the BBQ Pit thread that I believed it was a minority, I just posted erroneously here.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2008, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/46 "2008-01-02T22:48:14Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
**Liberal** , yes, ignorance needs to be fought, and as I said, there’s a clear negative answer to the question. There’s also the ignorance of the less-than-pure motives of folks who imply that Muslims are a majority-terrorist group; I want folks to be aware of the anti-Muslim bigots and the nature of their propaganda.
[/QUOTE]
Well, that’s fine, but there’s no need to be hostile about it. For some reason, this issue has raised your hackles, and I can sympathize. I felt the same way in the Lakota thread. But I don’t think there are a lot of anti-Muslim bigots here. In fact, the only GD witnessing thread I can recall that was all sweetness and fawning was the Ask the Muslim thread. Expressions of appreciation and soft-spoken words of encouragement abounded. I think it’s safe for you to take your finger off the trigger. 😃
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### Author:  [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/47 "2008-01-02T23:44:21Z")
[Here’s an article](http://ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives2/2006a/032406/032406h.htm)that quotes a Pew research poll of Americans, that shows widespread American support for torture.
> [@](#):
>
> A survey by the Pew Research Center in October showed that 15 percent of Americans believe torture is “often” justified, and another 31 percent believe it is “sometimes” justified. Add to that another 17 percent who said it is “rarely” justified, and you have two out of three Americans justifying torture under certain circumstances. Only 32 percent said it is “never” justified, while another 5 percent didn’t know or refused to answer.
>
> But the portion of Catholics who justify torture is even higher, according to the survey. Twenty-one percent of Catholics surveyed said it is “often” justified and 35 percent said it is “sometimes” justified. Another 16 percent said it is “rarely” justified, meaning that nearly three of four Catholics justify it under some circumstances. Four percent of Catholics “didn’t know” or refused to answer and only 26 percent said it is “never” justified, which is the official teaching of the church.
[And here’s an article](http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0223/p09s01-coop.html) about a poll by the University of Maryland’s Program on International Public Attitudes that shows that only 46 percent of Americans think that “bombing and other attacks intentionally aimed at civilians” are “never justified,” while 24 percent believe these attacks are “often or sometimes justified.”
> [@](#):
>
> Contrast those numbers with 2006 polling results from the world’s most-populous Muslim countries – Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Nigeria. Terror Free Tomorrow, the organization I lead, found that 74 percent of respondents in Indonesia agreed that terrorist attacks are “never justified”; in Pakistan, that figure was 86 percent; in Bangladesh, 81 percent.
>
> Do these findings mean that Americans are closet terrorist sympathizers?
>
> Hardly. Yet, far too often, Americans and other Westerners seem willing to draw that conclusion about Muslims. Public opinion surveys in the United States and Europe show that nearly half of Westerners associate Islam with violence and Muslims with terrorists. Given the many radicals who commit violence in the name of Islam around the world, that’s an understandable polling result.
>
> But these stereotypes, affirmed by simplistic media coverage and many radicals themselves, are not supported by the facts – and they are detrimental to the war on terror. When the West wrongly attributes radical views to all of the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims, it perpetuates a myth that has the very real effect of marginalizing critical allies in the war on terror.
Now can we please stop painting Muslims as supporters of terrorism? Or can we at least put Americans in their proper place along side them as supporters of terrorism?
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/48 "2008-01-02T23:50:36Z")
[QUOTE=Gala Matrix Fire]
Now can we please stop painting Muslims as supporters of terrorism? Or can we at least put Americans in their proper place along side them as supporters of terrorism?
[/QUOTE]
Certainly, it’s a discussion worth having.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/49 "2008-01-03T01:30:12Z")
[QUOTE=Gala Matrix Fire]
[And here’s an article](http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0223/p09s01-coop.html) about a poll by the University of Maryland’s Program on International Public Attitudes that shows that only 46 percent of Americans think that “bombing and other attacks intentionally aimed at civilians” are “never justified,” while 24 percent believe these attacks are “often or sometimes justified.”
[/QUOTE]
I think there’s a nuance in the wording that might have made a difference in the responses. The Pew poll used the phrase “bombing and other attacks intentionally aimed at civilians”, while the CS Monitor editorial says the UM poll used the phrase “terrorist attacks”.
Because of various cultural and historical factors, I would be hard pressed to believe that a substantial number of Americans would have responded that terrorist attacks were often or sometimes justified. You may, of course, argue that they constitute the same thing in _your mind_, but I’m sure you’ll agree that how something is worded can matter in a poll.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/50 "2008-01-03T01:48:50Z")
How prevalent among Muslims is a death penalty for apostasy? If there is no compulsion, how easily can one convert away from Islam?
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### Author:  [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2008, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/51 "2008-01-03T01:55:14Z")
[QUOTE=mswas]
How prevalent among Muslims is a death penalty for apostasy? If there is no compulsion, how easily can one convert away from Islam?
[/QUOTE]
While we’re changing the subject, how many Americans supported the Bush administration’s “shock and awe” campaign of 2003?
How many Americans will vote for a presidential candidate who explicitly condones torture?
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/52 "2008-01-03T02:00:23Z")
[QUOTE=Gala Matrix Fire]
While we’re changing the subject, how many Americans supported the Bush administration’s “shock and awe” campaign of 2003?
How many Americans will vote for a presidential candidate who explicitly condones torture?
[/QUOTE]
Even if we were to say all of them but one, is there some philosophical principle that would preclude that one from asking about how foreign cultures feel?
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/53 "2008-01-03T02:00:37Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin]
This has been said before, but bears repeating: **There are a billion Muslims.** One out of every six human beings on the planet. If most of them were radical fundamentalists, I think the world would be a noticeably different place.
(Edited to fix coding.)
[/QUOTE]
I would say that countries with Islamic governments ARE noticeably different places. Consider the recent court case in Saudi Arabia where a woman got a prison sentence for being raped. She was raped because her society believed it a crime to be escorted by a non-family member. She had to be escorted because women are not allowed to drive. Her objection to the sentence earned her 200 lashes (which would have killed her). This Country is the focus of Islam where all Muslims face each day to pray.
While citizens in Western countries enjoy the freedom to lampoon Christianity it only takes a political drawing of Mohammed (in another country) to create deadly riots. I don’t know if this should be viewed as radical fundamentalism or not as it seems to extend well beyond Al Qaeda types.
It is a decidedly different face of Islam that I see in my area. After 9/11 one of the local Mosques invited the public in to a question and answer session. It was generally reassuring to hear Islam described in a less volatile light. I’d put it slightly to the right of far-right Christian religions but left of the snake-handler sects. Probably the one question that caught my ear was a commentary on the giant Buddha statues that were destroyed in Afghanistan. I was told that it was a function of Islam that no false idols be allowed (not sure of the exact wording). When I asked about the pyramids of Egypt I got a deer-in-headlights look.
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### Author:  [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2008, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/54 "2008-01-03T02:01:58Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver]
When I asked about the pyramids of Egypt I got a deer-in-headlights look.
[/QUOTE]
Possibly because tombs aren’t idols?
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/55 "2008-01-03T02:10:20Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold]
Possibly because tombs aren’t idols?
[/QUOTE]
How about the sphinxes, then? Most represent pharaohs (like Khaf-Ra, in Giza) and therefore gods indirectly, but some outright represent gods, like those in Thebes that represent the god Amon.
ETA:
In any case, a Buddha statue does not represent any god, directly or otherwise.
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### Author:  [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2008, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/56 "2008-01-03T02:14:47Z")
And the stuff actually _in_ the pyramids would probably count, too. Just thought the pyramids themselves aren’t really idols.
Edit: I believe that pictures of Mohammed are a no-no, so I can picture Islamic ideas on idols including non-gods.
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### Author:  [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2008, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/57 "2008-01-03T02:17:26Z")
[QUOTE=Gala Matrix Fire]
While we’re changing the subject, how many Americans supported the Bush administration’s “shock and awe” campaign of 2003?
How many Americans will vote for a presidential candidate who explicitly condones torture?
[/QUOTE]
So killing people who try to convert to another religion is off-topic in a discussion about the prevalence of violent radical Islam?
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2008, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/58 "2008-01-03T03:25:28Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold]
Possibly because tombs aren’t idols?
[/QUOTE]
Well, I’m not an Egyptologist but if you Google egypt,pyramids,religion I’m sure something will pop up. The pyramids are steeped in religion and that would be contrary to Islamic doctrine. As such, I believe the Taliban would attempt to destroy them given the opportunity.
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### Author:  [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2008, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/59 "2008-01-03T03:46:55Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal]
How about the sphinxes, then? Most represent pharaohs (like Khaf-Ra, in Giza) and therefore gods indirectly, but some outright represent gods, like those in Thebes that represent the god Amon.
[/quote]
been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. Muhammad Sa’im al-Dahr destroyed the nose of the Giza Sphynx back in 1378 because the locals were making offerings for a good harvest. Probably would have finished the job if he hadn’t got lynched.
> [@](#):
>
> In any case, a Buddha statue does not represent any god, directly or otherwise.
But Buddha is still worshipped isn’t he?
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### Author:  [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)
#### Post date: [January 3, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-radical-islam-in-the-minority-among-muslims/431938/60 "2008-01-03T03:51:01Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver]
Well, I’m not an Egyptologist but if you Google egypt,pyramids,religion I’m sure something will pop up. The pyramids are steeped in religion and that would be contrary to Islamic doctrine. As such, I believe the Taliban would attempt to destroy them given the opportunity.
[/QUOTE]
I think you can get google hits for pretty much any combination of words. Like I said, I don’t know exactly what counts as an idol in Islamic terms, or in the views of the Taliban. I guess i’m not really following why you’d bring it up - I think i’d share that deer in the headlights look.
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