# Is Rap "Crap"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 23, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583 "2003-12-23T02:46:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Brandus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Brandus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandus)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/41 "2003-12-24T20:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ice97531 \* > \*\*What pisses me off about rap is how rappers claim there christian and all wearing their huge crosses made out of diamonds and yet their music videos show them to be hoes, bamming with the hottest gals around. They all jokes as far as im concerned. \*\* Don’t forget the most intimate expression of love and caring: spraying a hoe in a g-string with champaigne as she gyrates her ass in slow motion ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/42 "2003-12-24T20:46:11Z")
Assuming that gangsta rap is representative of the entire genre is as idiotic as assuming that tedious angst-rock is representative of the entire alternative rock genre. ---
**Author:** ![look\_ninjas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@look\_ninjas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/look_ninjas)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/43 "2003-12-24T23:59:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > \*\*There’s a difference between the graphic, negative, woman/white/cop/authority hatred of much of Rap’s lyrics, and the sensual and more relaxed “Let’s Spend the Night Together”. That’s a simplified, but accurate way to put it. > \*\* _cough_"Under My Thumb"_cough_ ---
**Author:** ![Deadly\_Nightlight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Deadly\_Nightlight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deadly_Nightlight)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/44 "2003-12-25T03:13:13Z")
I really don’t like rap, and rarely listen to it. However to say that all rap is about ho’s and bitches, is wrong. That would be like me saying that all rock is death metal, and all country songs are about cheating spouses and dying dogs and family members. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Serpentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@Silver\_Serpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Serpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/45 "2003-12-25T18:09:07Z")
[hijack] I listen to rock, so I thought I’d defend a few bands. Yeah, a lot of it is crap, and I listen to some crap, by my highish standards (being lyrics with meaning) - Chevelle, Seether, Static-X, etc. Good bands would be - Tool, System of A Down, Disturbed, and Manson (you can find intelligence in there, really). [/hijack] Personally, I don’t like rap. But I also don’t like country, speed metal, death metal, electronica, etc. Everyone always tell me to “widen my horizons,” but I’ve given all of it a chance, and it just doesn’t sound good to me. Would I call it all crap? Not most of it, no (although Cradle of Filth does come dangerously close, heh). I dislike rap a bit more than the other just because of how often I come in contact with it via stereos turned up so loudly that it rattles my windows, and MTv playing almost only rap these days (except between the hours of, what, 2 and 3am?). Also, several of the rock stations I’ve listened to have been replaced with rap stations. But that’s not the MUSIC’s fault. Different tastes, y’know. Just because **I** don’t like it, doesn’t mean it’s crap. I may say it is, but I don’t really believe it, heh. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/46 "2003-12-25T20:19:10Z")
Man it seems like we have this silly argument every few weeks around here. The short story is that every single genre of music has some good artists and some awful ones. Just as you can pull out the worst gangsta rap, I can pull out J5, the Roots, and Blackstar. As far as the sampling stuff, and “they can’t play a note” type of stuff, this is retarded. I’ve worked in studios, I’m a recording engineer, and I’ve produced every type of music under the sun. I don’t care what goes into something as long as 2 criteria are met. It’s not some blatant rip off, and the end product sounds good. Who cares if someone plays an instrument? What if they play it badly? The Aphex Twin doesn’t play an “instrument” and he makes some of the most amazing shit around. He has a song where he sampled himself beating a bucket with a bikepump, and it’s one of the most amazing things I’ve heard. So samples are bad? Of course not. Like anything, they are as good as what you do with them. Keep in mind there are more ways to make music then to sit down and play a bunch of instuments. And of course what comes out of that will be 75% no talent, 20% pretty good, and 5% amazing. ---
**Author:** ![hauss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5fc32e/32.png) [@hauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hauss)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/47 "2003-12-25T21:29:48Z")
Rappers have (some) talent, but why use it to be so prideful? The way they talk on their records, would they talk like that at a family picnic to their in-laws? Rappers are too publicly arrogant these days and I don’t respect that one bit. Rock bands want to make good unique music, make their fans happy, and have a good time rockin’, while writing lyrics that people can identify with. Rappers do it for the fame, money and all the women they “don’t love”. As for the music itself, it’s mostly for people who “love a good beat”. (Is a good beat “music”? Good beats can be found for a dime a dozen…) Lyrics are downright clever sometimes, though. ---
**Author:** ![Brandus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Brandus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandus)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/48 "2003-12-25T22:06:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > **The Aphex Twin doesn’t play an “instrument” and he makes some of the most amazing shit around.** I refer the general reader (I’m sure you’ve seen it, **World Eater** ), to the Windowlicker video by afx. It’s a great song, the video is a parody of rap videos. Hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Lawn\_Mower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8dc957/32.png) [@Lawn\_Mower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lawn_Mower)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/49 "2003-12-25T22:53:28Z")
Rap is Crap. As I like to say **R** etards **A** ttempting **P** oetry ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/50 "2003-12-25T23:02:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*I don’t care what goes into something as long as 2 criteria are met. It’s not some blatant rip off, and the end product sounds good. \*\* But “sounds good” is a matter of opinion. What sounds good to me might not sound good to you, and vice versa. If the criterion for crap is that it doesn’t sound good, then there’s no definitive answer on what is crap and what isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![look\_ninjas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@look\_ninjas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/look_ninjas)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/51 "2003-12-25T23:15:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cityboy916 \* > \*\*But “sounds good” is a matter of opinion. What sounds good to me might not sound good to you, and vice versa. If the criterion for crap is that it doesn’t sound good, then there’s no definitive answer on what is crap and what isn’t. \*\* Exactly. It comes down to a matter of taste. If rap isn’t to your taste, that’s fine. Listen to what makes you happy. But, IMHO, it’s ridiculous to disparage an entire genre of music and everyone who listens to it just because you don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/52 "2003-12-25T23:19:05Z")
Lawn Mower, again, please don’t address an entire genre with one sweeping statement. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/53 "2003-12-25T23:28:59Z")
Especially such a painfully unfunny one. ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/54 "2003-12-25T23:38:53Z")
I thought **Lawn Mower** ’s acronym was funny. But once again that’s just my opinion. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/55 "2003-12-25T23:39:56Z")
Opinions are good. Generalisations are bad. Apart from the ones I agree with, clearly! ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/56 "2003-12-26T01:34:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by look!ninjas \* > \*\*Exactly. It comes down to a matter of taste. If rap isn’t to your taste, that’s fine. Listen to what makes you happy. But, IMHO, it’s ridiculous to disparage an entire genre of music and everyone who listens to it just because you don’t like it. \*\* Yep, I couldn’t have put it better. Speaking of music I think I’ll plug my stuff. [www.subtechbeats.com](http://www.subtechbeats.com) For some strange hip hop try “Crawl” or “BkLove” For trip hop try “Comatose” ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/57 "2003-12-26T01:39:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by look!ninjas \* > \*\*_cough_"Under My Thumb"_cough_ \*\* Smile. Yes, you might think that from the chorus, but don’t forget that he was talking about ONE woman, who’d originally been the one holding him down, and his “revenge” so to speak, not “women” or in their slang “bitches and hos” (or is that hoes? :D). Lyrics snip "Under my thumb The girl who once had me down Under my thumb The girl who once pushed me around " It’s still a far, FAR cry from “motherf#@#$#bitchslapyouhateyouyobetterspreadyolegs, yoain’tnothin’butaho” and so on and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![look\_ninjas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@look\_ninjas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/look_ninjas)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/58 "2003-12-26T14:30:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > \*\*It’s still a far, FAR cry from “motherf#@#$#bitchslapyouhateyouyobetterspreadyolegs, yoain’tnothin’butaho” and so on and so forth. \*\* It’s also a far cry from “You always was committed A poor single mother on welfare, tell me how ya did it There’s no way I can pay you back But the plan is to show you that I understand You are appreciated.” (from “Dear Mama,” Tupac Shakur) I’m not trying to claim that Mick and Keith are raving misogynists. However, there are lyrics in rock and roll songs that are far from feminist, just as there are lyrics in rap songs that celebrate strong women. This is why blanket statements are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Universe_Lashes_Out)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/59 "2003-12-26T16:25:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yersinia \* > **Even though I’d rather listen to most classical music than most contemporary music, I don’t dislike ALL contemporary music nor would I even come close to calling all of it noise even though I DO feel that way about rap. I will state a decided preference for instrumental music, however, and even among bands which do have vocals, I like the ones with complex instrumentality. Rock music? Emerson, Lake and Palmer. Yes (pre-1980). Kansas (especially the album “Leftoverture” – check out that song Magnum Opus willya?). Rush (didn’t someone say something about complex rhythm patterns and profound lyrics? I highly recommend the Rush album “A Farewell To Kings” on both these counts. Music like this just isn’t made anymore, with only one exception I’ve heard so far (believe me, in the last two and a half years, I’ve had LOTS of exposure to what passes for music these days):** Wait a minute. Let me get this straight. If I’m wrong in some way, correct me and I’ll profusely apologize. But it seems to me like you are willing to dismiss the entire genre of rap, which has produced the most [critically acclaimed](http://www.metacritic.com/music/bests/) new album of the past four years. And this sort of arrogance is coming from the keyboard of someone who likes KANSAS?!? Do you live near a sporting goods store? Cause I’ve got to wonder where you get the balls to make any critical statements about music when Kansas is one of your favorite bands. Wait, I know what you’re going to say. “Sure, ‘Dust in the Wind’ blows. And ‘Carry On My Wayward Son’ is lame. And if you just heard those songs, obviously Kansas would sound just like every other crappy prog-rock band that tortured us with six minute long singles from 1975-1985. But you have to dig deeper, and listen to the stuff that’s not popular, because that’s where the real artistry happens. You can’t say a band is completely worthless just based on two overplayed radio songs.” And then I’d laugh at your hypocracy and close-mindedness. As much as I don’t like “Dust in the Wind” and “Carry On My Wayward Son” I’ll be willing to grant you the possibility that Kansas made some music that is artistically appealing to fans of that genre. Even their best stuff probably wouldn’t appeal to me, but that doesn’t mean its worthless or “not music.” Now, I’m not even trying to argue that some of Nelly’s album tracks are the pinnacle of artistic expression. I’m saying there are completely different artists who happen to exist in the same genre as Nelly who make fantastic music. Artists you’ve never heard anything by. Come on, just admit its possible that all those J-Live songs you’ve never heard might be quality stuff. (Note: if anyone reading this refuses to admit that its possible, then you are an idiot and should stop posting your opinions to a high quality message board such as this one.) There are plenty of people who are told old and stuffy to actually like any rap music, but even if you are one of these people you should at least be mildly open-minded and admit that there may be some artistic merit by certain people involved in rap. To say that an entire genre sucks, is worthless, or is not music (especially when the tiny fraction of it you’ve heard represents only what’s popular, not what’s good) is the height of ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2003, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583/60 "2003-12-26T16:39:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by look!ninjas \* > \*\*It’s also a far cry from > “You always was committed > A poor single mother on welfare, tell me how ya did it > There’s no way I can pay you back > But the plan is to show you that I understand > You are appreciated.” > (from “Dear Mama,” Tupac Shakur) > > I’m not trying to claim that Mick and Keith are raving misogynists. However, there are lyrics in rock and roll songs that are far from feminist, just as there are lyrics in rap songs that celebrate strong women. This is why blanket statements are stupid. \*\* I wasn’t the one who said it was ALL crap. You must have missed the part in my previous posts where I said, because it’s all we hear, that is what we’ve come to think of as rap. The “good stuff” is either thought of as hip hop, as we previously discussed, or the actual rap, that with no singing in it at all, that we DO hear is the hateful stuff. The “good stuff” isn’t aired on any of the stations, well, at least not that the average person would see, if an when they DO play music, they generally play the ones with all the garbage snicked out, or, again, the more melodic rap, is what the average person thinks of as hip hop, not rap. I didn’t say that there wasn’t any rap with nice lyrics in my previous post, what I DID say was that **from what we hear** , this is how we see rap. The “bad” stuff is what is being played in all the little “bouncin’” stereo systems in the little boys’ cars, and on the air. Unlike other genre’s of music where all different types are played and aired. Perhaps it’s a problem of delivery, that is, that people have this idea because the radio and TV stations don’t often air the “good” stuff. In that case, if folks who love rap so much really are interested in changing people’s minds, and not just in whining, “but there IS good stuff”, and giving hip hop songs as examples, perhaps they should start putting the good stuff “out there”. As it is now, what “good stuff” there may be, it’s not getting aired very often. My point was, that it’s “what’s out there” that has given non rap afficiondos the idea that rap is crap. And again, this is different from say a rock station on which you can hear everything from ballads, to dancing music to the occasional sexist tune. For instance, I HATE the doors (and Tom Jones etc) because of this and I like rock, but on any given rock station, the doors, and their sexist garbage does not make up the majority of what is played. When “Baby Light My Fire” comes on the radio, I’m JUST as quick to hit scan as I am when I hear some hateful “hos and bitches” lyrics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rap-crap/220583.md?page=4)