Surely for me to be innocent, I would have to prove I had been duped into the robbery, and was not acting as I otherwise would.
[/QUOTE]
Let’s make sure we get this as clear as possible; being “duped” into the robbery or not acting as you otherwise would are irrelevant points.
If it is proven that you physically committed the robbery, your only defense would be that you were incapable of forming criminal intent. Whether I “duped” you or not doesn’t matter. You would be in a position whereby you’d not only have to present evidence you were hypnotized, but you would also have to present scientific evidence that hypnosis prevents you from forming conscious intent and knowing the consequences of your actions.
I think that’s a new question. And no, you can’t establish that.
If you legitimately and honestly believe a person is about to kill you or someone else, you have a legally valid reason to use force to stop them. I don’t happen to believe what you’re saying is possible, but if you could do it, the hypnotized killer would have a legitimate defense.
Stranger things have happened. In Canada, a man was acquitted for murder because he told the court that the man he beat to death was a “bearwalker,” which according to his native beliefs is an evil spirit set on destroying his soul. Really.
“False suggestion” isn’t a legal standard for rape anywhere. If I tell you I’ll respect you in the morning, we have sex, and in the morning I don’t respect you, it’s not rape. Dishonesty doesn’t count as rape. Rape requires a lack of consent. Except in some cases of statutury rape, you can be a weasel to elicit consent.
Total change of subject, but does this mean that, in Virginia, it is legal to have non-consensual sex with your spouse? Not that it’s a good idea, I was just wondering.
The answer, in short, is that it is rape in Virginia to have sex with one’s spouse against the spouse’s will by force, threat or intimidation while living apart, or by force, threat or intimidation that causes bodily injury. So far as I can determine, it is not rape in Virginia to have sex with one’s spouse through the use of the spouse’s mental incapacity or physical helplessness. See § 18.2-61 subsections B-D.
This is not legal advice. You are not entitled to rely on this as legal advice. But that’s how I read it.
I am not an expert on hypnosis, but I have been hypnotised in a stage show a few times. I would like to build on something that AudryK said:
This is true. You need to basically give consent to have your perceptions altered. While hypnotised, at no time was I actually unaware of the actual environment. I had just chosen to go along with the hypnotist’s suggestions.
Some people are able to go further under, and will accept the suggestions to a greater degree, and a longer and more private session would probably put me further under. But I don’t think it is possible to lose all contact with the actual situation. You just, to one degree or another, are pretending another situation applies. It is an altered state, but it is not equivalent to drugs or insanity, as far as legal issues are concerned.
In other words, hypnosis is not going to be a sustainable legal defense. You knew the actual situation, so your actions carry valid intent. Your only hope would be if the prosecution couldn’t present an expert witness to say what I just did, or if the judge or jury didn’t believe the witness.
Let’s say a guy hypnotizes a girl, and somehow he talks her into thinking he’s her celebrity lust object-- oh, say Keanu Reeves. So she’s delighted by “Keanu’s” come-ons and frolicks in bed with him all night, never once realizing that the guy’s actually 5’2", 300 pounds, and bald.
Eventually, she comes out of her hypnotized state and realizes what happened. So she calls the cops, and the guy gets arrested on a rape charge. The case goes to trial. The guy denies that he did any hypnosis and says she wanted to sleep with him. She says no, she thought he was Keanu Reeves. (Yes, she would be fully aware of everything that happened.)
When you get down to it, how does this differ from any other rape case? She didn’t give the guy consent. Sure, she gave consent… but to Keanu Reeves. The guy took advantage of her mistaking him for Keanu Reeves. I believe it’s called opportunistic rape.
Besides, like I said before, the whole scenario cannot happen, because hypnosis does not work that way. Period.
As for your murder and rape scenarios, they can’t happen either. You cannot be made to do something you wouldn’t want to do unhypnotized. You also cannot be made to think you’re someone you’re not, nor can you be made to think someone is someone other than whom they really are.
It would have nothing to do with the skill, credibility or ethics of the hypnotist. It cannot be done.
That would have to be one hell of a snow job. And like I said before, the person would have to be higly prone to suggestion to accept what they’re fed. Even then, the hypnotist still has the exact same chance of convincing them to do something under hypnosis that he would have if the person wasn’t hypnotized.
It’s possible they can but it’s very likely they won’t. It’s unethical, and it’s impractical to deal with something as highly ingrained as morals with something as experimental as hypnosis. Yes, experimental. Psychology does not yet fully understand what hypnosis is, or how it works. But it does know its limits.
When hypnosis is used in behavior therapy, the therapist will likely have the person-- let’s say an agoraphobic-- imagine himself in a situation where he’s outside his house. That’s it. He’ll be asked to imagine possible scenarios and imagine his interactions with his environment. This, paired with the relaxation aspect of hypnosis, will help the person face the real-life situation. Hypnosis alone cannot change a person’s behavior. Influence, yes, but not to as great a degree as you think.
::sigh:: You’re not listening. No hypnotist can make you do something you wouldn’t normally do. You cannot be tricked into believing something unless you were willing to be the dupe. And since a hypnotized person is cognizant, he and his hypnotizer would be equally responsible for his actions. The hypnotizer would be considered a co-conspirator.
I can’t imagine there’s been any precedent for it. Of course, there doesn’t have to be, because it can’t happen unless the hypnotizee wanted to be a criminal (at least on some level) to begin with.
I thought so. Never fear! Mind control does not exist. Targeted advertising is as close as we’ve gotten, and whether it works is so unclear, it’s GD material.
Sez who?
It definitely is. I’ve been hypnotized lightly twice, by my professor, and I’ve enjoyed both times. Each time lasted about 15-20 minutes, and I came out of it feeling refreshed. Saltire: If you were chosen as a hypnotizee in a stage show, the hypnotist must have found you to be prone to suggestion. There are tests hypnotists can to do determine how suggestible you are-- the one I use in class has to do with the natural tendency for people to sway after a while when they stand in one place with their eyes closed. Swaying is normal; your body is trying to balance itself without its main indicator of balance (vision). People who are prone to suggestion sway even more when you tell them they’re swaying.
*When you get down to it, how does this differ from any other rape case? She didn’t give the guy consent. Sure, she gave consent… but to Keanu Reeves. The guy took advantage of her mistaking him for Keanu Reeves. I believe it’s called opportunistic rape. *
Just speculating for the fun of it here, but… how is this different from me getting someone to go to bed with me by telling her that I’m the CEO of a billion-dollar internet company, when actually I clean toilets at the dysentery clinic for $5.35/hour? She gave a rich guy consent, not some penniless slob. I took advantage of her mistaking me for a multi-millionaire, so is that also opportunistic rape? Does it make a difference if she was under hypnosis or not when I gave my line of BS?
Could you recommend a good book on how hypnosis works (and why it’s different from the nonsense you sometimes see on TV and in movies) for Biffer Spice? I think it’s going to take a book for her to be convinced that her naive image of how hypnosis works is incorrect.
In your example, you flat out lied to her. In hypnosis, the hypnotist suggests the illusion. The hypnotizee agrees to accept the illusion as reality. For it to be the same, you’d have to tell your woman, “Okay, I’m going to fabricate this identity for myself. You can then have sex with this identity if you choose to believe it’s who I really am.”
Don’t think you’d have much success with that approach.
Wendell Wagner, good question. I really don’t know of any good books on the subject. All I know about hypnosis I learned from lectures from one of my professors (who, unfortunately, is not in Hawaii right now, and won’t be for a while longer), and I don’t know where he gets his information. All I have are my own notes, which includes the suggestions narrative that I use in my classes. I’d be happy to forward them to anyone interested. Really, though, it’s best to experience it.
Mind control does not exist. Targeted advertising is as close as we’ve gotten, and whether it works is so unclear, it’s GD material.
Sez who?