# Is rape the forcing of a soul tie between the rapist and victim? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 5, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008 "2009-09-05T23:55:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Captain\_Awesome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Captain\_Awesome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Awesome)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/121 "2009-09-07T22:01:10Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > IMHO God will not hold a child accountable for any wrong until he knows enough to choose. This is clearly incorrect. Adam and Eve were held accountable for their sins despite their lack of a moral framework. > [@kanicbird](#): > > So the infant Jesus is ‘perfect’ in the sense that He does not know enough not to sin, so sinless, but also needs refinement as He grows. As such, using a prochoice term, the infant Jesus is the potential for perfection at this time. Potential for perfection ≠ perfection. > [@kanicbird](#): > > Children agree to accept the sins of their parents and others, by a parent saying that it is all your fault and the child believing it, the child accepts and bears the weight of it. By your own standards an infant who does not know enough not to sin is sinless. How can a sinless child accept and bear sin, when they do not know enough to do so? > [@kanicbird](#): > > IMHO Jesus, the son of Love, is the first son of God, for Jesus to learn to be perfect in maturity we were created. We go through suffering in our life for a short time, then spend eternity sharing the full inheritance of the very Son of God, which is not something we have to wait for the Father to die (as He won’t), but the whole universe - teeming with life, which is currently hidden from us, is given to us as a loving thank you from our father because Jesus loves us so much that He is willing to share it with us. The Father will always be maintaining this inheritances and delights in His Son and us delighting in it. We were therefore created and punished in order to facilitate the perfection of the physical manifestation of an already perfect being. This human form was conceived to save us from the punishment that we were made to endure so that he could exist. This argument is entirely fallacious. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/122 "2009-09-07T22:24:01Z")
> [@Captain\_Awesome](#): > > This is clearly incorrect. Adam and Eve were held accountable for their sins despite their lack of a moral framework. Adam who is possible Jesus, did endure suffering. > [@](#): > > Potential for perfection ≠ perfection. But also does not equal imperfection. God can change imperfection in the past to perfection: [QUOTE= Romans 8] 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. [/QUOTE] When all is said and done no one will be able to bring any charged against anyone predestined by God. So no charge will stand. It is a learning process that we need to go through which involved getting our hands dirty at times. > [@](#): > > By your own standards an infant who does not know enough not to sin is sinless. How can a sinless child accept and bear sin, when they do not know enough to do so? It is a decision of our parents, which we are totally dependent on in the early years. > [@](#): > > We were therefore created and punished in order to facilitate the perfection of the physical manifestation of an already perfect being. This human form was conceived to save us from the punishment that we were made to endure so that he could exist. This argument is entirely fallacious. Yes we were ‘punished’ for a few decades to not only receive eternal happiness but also to be God’s beloved child. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/123 "2009-09-07T22:34:42Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > We all will become one body, the body of Christ. Marriage is a step in this process, a shadow of thing to come. The combining of 2 into 1 is God’s plan and is very real. > > This process is very beautiful and is how God and man become one, do you dislike this concept? No, I do not _believe in_ your mythos. Two married people do NOT become “one body”. This is apparent to anyone who bothers to look at a married couple and sees that they retain their individual bodies post-marriage. People do not magically fuse into one being. Enjoy your fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/124 "2009-09-07T22:54:00Z")
No, rape is not the forcing of a soul tie between the rapist and the victim. It is rather a chromatic discordance between soul colours, a jarring dissonance of the celestial music to which all souls vibrate, a tremor in the quantum soul flux, a localized unsettling of the cosmic foundation. Shit, I got a million more of these I could pull out of my ass, each equally as valid as the supposed ‘soul tie’. Everybody is an expert at this stuff because it bears no relation to reality. Hey, you might even get lucky as Freud did and sucker people for the best part of a century with your ‘dream interpretations’ and ‘id’ and ‘psychoanalysis’. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/125 "2009-09-08T00:01:28Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I am one who has left everything to follow Jesus (this in not some altruistic trait in myself but God gave me no option - praise to Him). I don’t truly identify myself with a ‘denomination’ as such but do attend a Pentecostal church at this time. If asked I usually say a follower of Lord Jesus. In the general sense yes I am a Christian, and do believe the outline that DocCathode put forth. Have you ever considered starting your own church? It’s clear that you’ve thought about your belief system a lot, and you’d make a lot more progress telling the Lord’s Truth to people in a church then people on a message board full of skeptics and atheists. And if you truly hold the Lord’s Truth, and no other denomination properly speaks it, isn’t it your duty, as a soldier of the Lord to spread the truth and destroy the lies of other denominations? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/126 "2009-09-08T00:35:16Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Have you ever considered starting your own church? It’s clear that you’ve thought about your belief system a lot, and you’d make a lot more progress telling the Lord’s Truth to people in a church then people on a message board full of skeptics and atheists. And if you truly hold the Lord’s Truth, and no other denomination properly speaks it, isn’t it your duty, as a soldier of the Lord to spread the truth and destroy the lies of other denominations? There is but one true church throughout the world, that is the church Jesus founded, it is the only church that is needed and it is spiritual, as such I am part of that and where the Lord needs me at this time. The different physical churches are a different matter, the church works though these physical churches despite their problems, you can see this in the letters of Paul and what Jesus had John send to the churches in Rev 2-3. Just because there are lies does not mean that God wants to destroy them, just like the temple in the OT was full of corruption though God maintained it. Also true skeptics should be ones who are willing to question what they have been taught, question their own understanding, as well as questioning those who chalenge their beliefs. As for atheists, I don’t believe that to be a stable belief system, it will leave the person ultimately empty. And we have the great commission. So to sum it up, God has me here for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/127 "2009-09-08T00:38:05Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > It is rather a chromatic discordance between soul colours, a jarring dissonance of the celestial music to which all souls vibrate, a tremor in the quantum soul flux, a localized unsettling of the cosmic foundation. So in other words, exactly what I said, forcing a soul tie between the two people 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Blut\_Aus\_Nord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Blut\_Aus\_Nord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blut_Aus_Nord)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/128 "2009-09-08T00:39:45Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > So to sum it up, God has me here for a reason. I think despite your good intentions, presenting your unorthodox opinions and proselytizing in the process will further alienate more people than enlighten them to the truth you speak of. But I guess even if only one person takes hold, then you’ve accomplished something. I haven’t seen him yet. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/129 "2009-09-08T00:49:52Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Anybody know the proper singular form of Nephilim? > > Many Cherubim, one Cherub > > Many Seraphim, One Seraph > > Many Nephilim, one - - - Nephil? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/130 "2009-09-08T01:15:10Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > It is rather a chromatic discordance between soul colours, a jarring dissonance of the celestial music to which all souls vibrate, a tremor in the quantum soul flux, a localized unsettling of the cosmic foundation. > [@kanicbird](#): > > So in other words, exactly what I said, forcing a soul tie between the two people 😃 I suspect you’ve been whooshed. The rest of his post: > [@aldiboronti](#): > > Shit, I got a million more of these I could pull out of my ass, each equally as valid as the supposed ‘soul tie’. Everybody is an expert at this stuff because it bears no relation to reality. Hey, you might even get lucky as Freud did and sucker people for the best part of a century with your ‘dream interpretations’ and ‘id’ and ‘psychoanalysis’. :rolleyes: Duh. (Not at YOU, **aldiboronti**!) > [@kanicbird](#): > > No it is not rape, it is struggle inside a single body for control, what part bears the burden. > > One partner burning with desire and the other person denying them is the other end of this, it is equally a power struggle for control within the body. ??? And your point is? _What I’m asking is, does a wife still have a right to say NO? If it isn’t “rape” in your view_, then is at the very LEAST, abuse? \* You’re painting a very disturbing and incredibly misogynistic picture, **Kanicbird**. \*In all my years in Catholic school and in church, I was NEVER ever taught, nor have I EVER heard that the a husband and wife are almost literally one. Joined together, as man and wife, spiritually, but not ONE, literally. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/131 "2009-09-08T01:46:49Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > _What I’m asking is, does a wife still have a right to say NO? If it isn’t “rape” in your view_, then is at the very LEAST, abuse? \* You’ve worded it in a way that I have to say that either partner does not have any right to refuse sex, doing so would deprive the spouse of their own body. Forcing sex on the spouse however (which IMHO is equal to denying sex), represents the result of areas of the marriage not covered under the protection of God and subject to frustration. [QUOTE=1 Cor 7] 4The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > You’re painting a very disturbing and incredibly misogynistic picture, **Kanicbird**. It is equal for both genders. > [@](#): > > \*In all my years in Catholic school and in church, I was NEVER ever taught, nor have I EVER heard that the a husband and wife are almost literally one. Joined together, as man and wife, spiritually, but not ONE, literally. Jesus taught the two become one flesh, pretty straight forward, and direct from Jesus Matt 19:5, Mk 10:8 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/132 "2009-09-08T05:28:52Z")
Biblical literalism is not taught in Catholic schools – and no church I know of teaches it to the degree you have taken it. By your logic, marital relations are nothing more than masturbation. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/133 "2009-09-08T11:17:09Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Jesus taught the two become one flesh, pretty straight forward, and direct from Jesus Matt 19:5, Mk 10:8 Reality directly contradicts that. Both halves of a married couple retain their own bodies. They do not magically acquire the same blood type or immune system markers that would allow, say, a kidney transplant without anti-rejection drugs. The evidence makes your quote a _lie_. Seriously - are you sure you’re worshiping the correct entity? Why would God hold one thing to be true, yet construct the world to be in direct contradiction to it? Isn’t that … deceptive? Who is the Great Deceiver again…? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/134 "2009-09-08T16:47:30Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Reality directly contradicts that. Both halves of a married couple retain their own bodies. They do not magically acquire the same blood type or immune system markers that would allow, say, a kidney transplant without anti-rejectio My own experience with soul ties does explain what God means when He says the 2 become 1 and why sex denial or forcing it is not His plan. When the 2 are in a scriptural based God protected soul tie they will experience desire together. The desire will be the ‘making love’ that their spirits are mutually engaged in. The problem stems when other soul ties are allowed into the marriage, there are many many love triangles where a person spiritually loves another and forms a soul tie, while the flesh lust after with their physical relationship is with another person all together. As I pointed out above I believe this is the reason why a person can seem to get sexual aroused for no apparent reason, their spirit is making love to another, but that person might be with another in the flesh. That type of soul tie is devastating to a marriage, and IMHO can also be the reason for sexual problems such as impotence, as the male (in this case) is not getting spiritual stimulation as the female is spiritually connected to another person. This also can go both ways, and may be responsible for the female not enjoying sex, failure to orgasm, not enough natural lubrication. This also IMHO can result in children that are spiritually not the fathers. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/135 "2009-09-08T20:01:17Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Seriously - are you sure you’re worshiping the correct entity? Why would God hold one thing to be true, yet construct the world to be in direct contradiction to it? Isn’t that … deceptive? From what I’ve been told by followers of creationism, God did indeed create the world with the “appearance of age” as a direct test of faith for His Believers. The conundrum here is why a caring, loving God would fuck with the minds of his followers like that, requiring utter blind faith instead of providing _genuine_ clues that confirm his existence – if such a God actually existed, he would be one hell of a control freak, and his promise of Heaven is certainly a far worse Hell than the one non-believers are threatened with. (Wait…is this the creationism thread or the pro-rape thread? I’m getting the two confused…) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/136 "2009-09-08T22:03:36Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Biblical literalism is not taught in Catholic schools – and no church I know of teaches it to the degree you have taken it. > By your logic, marital relations are nothing more than masturbation. I’m having marital relations like a motherfuck! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/137 "2009-09-09T04:41:53Z")
One wonders (and hopes not!) is **Kanicbird** married? Does he have any relationship experience? Where the hell does he come up with this bullshit? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/138 "2009-09-09T06:53:25Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > No, I do not _believe in_ your mythos. Two married people do NOT become “one body”. This is apparent to anyone who bothers to look at a married couple and sees that they retain their individual bodies post-marriage. People do not magically fuse into one being. Apparently, **kanicbird** is actually [Dr. Seth Brundle.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091064/) ---
**Author:** ![Thundergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@Thundergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thundergirl)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/139 "2012-08-22T05:08:06Z")
RE: Kanicbird’s Post: As a victim of child-rape, it took MANY YEARS TO NOTICE THAT ON THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSONAL LEVELS, (relationships, friendships, family, home, even strangers), that the rapist had attached herself to my LIFE, WHOLLY, and after a long while, her ‘look-alikes’ & ‘act alikes,’ as both females & males were ‘attracted’ to me EVERYWHERE I WENT: EVERY WHERE. ‘She’ ( a demon ), even got me FURTHER RAPED by one of her look-alikes WORDS TO ME, that occurred again, MANY YEARS AFTER THE ACTUAL WORDS WERE SPOKEN ! ! ! ! IN THIS WAY, ABUSERS ARE ATTACHED TO THEIR VICTIMS FOR LIFE, CRAZY AS IT SOUNDS, ABUSERS CAN BE VERY INSANE TO A SANE PERSON WHO HAS TO FIGHT TO UNDERSTAND WHY INSANE THINGS, HATEFUL, HURTFUL THINGS THAT ARE NOT THEIR OWN KARMA ARE HAPPENING TO THEM ! ! ! MOSTLY, THE ABUSERS FEARS GET ATTACHED TO THE SUBTLE ‘BODY’ / AURIC & NEURO-RECEPTORS, AND THE EXPERIENCES REPEAT THEMSELVES, UNTIL THE TIGHTEST KNOT OF INANITY IS REACHED ! ! ! ABUSE VICTIMS HAVE A HUGE AMOUNT OF WORK TO SIFT THROUGH ON BEHALF OF THEIR INSANE ABUSERS ! ! ! IT RUINS LIVES, STEALS LIFETIMES, TRADES SOULS ! ! ! THIS HAS BEEN A 53 YEAR ‘EXPERIENCE’ OF UNDERSTANDING IT, SO I OFFER IT FOR ANYONE WHO MIGHT BE LOOKING FOR ANSWERS FOR THEMSELVES. THIS IS WHAT IS MEANT BY A ‘SOUL - TIE.’ THE ABUSED IS FORCED TO TAKE ON THE KARMA & EXPERIENCES THAT THE ABUSER SHOULD HAVE GOT, INSTEAD. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008/140 "2012-08-22T05:37:02Z")
A very high percentage of women I have known in my life report that they were raped or molested by family members or close freinds of the family. Usually through gentle manipulation and coersion. This leaves the girls especialy damaged because they usually feel they played a part or encouraged it. I don’t think it affects boys quite the same. If the perpetrator is female boys will usually walk away unscathed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-rape-the-forcing-of-a-soul-tie-between-the-rapist-and-victim/509008.md?page=8)