# is raping a prostitute the same as shoplifting? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612 "2010-11-23T02:28:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MinkyBinks735](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@MinkyBinks735](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinkyBinks735)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/1 "2010-11-23T02:28:56Z")
is raping a prostitute the same as shoplifting? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/2 "2010-11-23T02:32:26Z")
The simple factual answer is, obviously, no. However, since the OP is probably seeking a longer answer than that, I’m going to move this to Great Debates from GQ. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/3 "2010-11-23T02:40:57Z")
Having consensual sex with a prostitute then not paying her is analogous to shoplifting. Rape is a violent crime and has nothing to do with stealing. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/4 "2010-11-23T02:41:10Z")
No, it’s the same as raping any person. Next question. ---
**Author:** ![MinkyBinks735](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@MinkyBinks735](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinkyBinks735)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/5 "2010-11-23T02:42:52Z")
thank you sir ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/6 "2010-11-23T02:43:59Z")
No, neither legally nor morally. Whether for love, recreation, or financial consideration, every person has the choice as to who they consent to having sex with and who they refuse. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/7 "2010-11-23T02:46:08Z")
I’m going to buck the trend here and say, “Yes. Legally speaking, raping a prostitute is the same as shoplifting.” Kidding. I just wanted to see what would happen. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/8 "2010-11-23T02:47:27Z")
> [@MinkyBinks735](#): > > thank you sir Can you present your reasoning for asking the question? ---
**Author:** ![MinkyBinks735](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@MinkyBinks735](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinkyBinks735)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/9 "2010-11-23T02:49:50Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Can you present your reasoning for asking the question? um. well someone asked me it as a joke…and i thought I would share it… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/10 "2010-11-23T03:17:24Z")
It would be closer to robbery or mugging than shoplifting if you insisted on a financial analogy. It’s worse of course because bodies are more intimate than possessions. Somewhere between mugging someone for their artificial leg and mugging them to steal their testicles I guess. **CookingWithGas** is right I think, the analogous crime to shoplifting would be having sex with her and then refusing to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/11 "2010-11-23T03:22:43Z")
> [@MinkyBinks735](#): > > um. well someone asked me it as a joke…and i thought I would share it… Did you punch him? Because vandalism is a crime, you know. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/12 "2010-11-23T03:59:17Z")
> [@MinkyBinks735](#): > > um. well someone asked me it as a joke…and i thought I would share it… Um…did this person rape you? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/13 "2010-11-23T04:06:10Z")
> [@MinkyBinks735](#): > > um. well someone asked me it as a joke…and i thought I would share it… And did you find this “joke” amusing? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/14 "2010-11-23T04:10:38Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Having consensual sex with a prostitute then not paying her is analogous to shoplifting. For the sake of the argument, to be perfectly cold hearted and legalistic about it for a moment (and I’m not suggesting that is an acceptable thing to do generally) I disagree. Consensual sex with a prostitute then not paying is the equivalent of having a shop deliver an item then not paying their invoice. Shoplifting seems to me to be defined by taking something that is put out for sale without the seller’s knowledge. A close analogy would be drugging a prostitute and raping them while they are unconscious such that they only realise they have been raped after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/15 "2010-11-23T04:14:55Z")
In areas where prostitution is legal, wouldn’t obtaining the services of a prostitute and then failing to pay the fee constitute theft of services? And rape, of course, is rape. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/16 "2010-11-23T04:35:42Z")
Sounds like whoever the OP spoke to just did a poor job retelling a joke from one of George Carlin’s books: [QUOTE=George Carlin] If you have sex with a prostitute against her will, is it considered rape or shoplifting? [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/17 "2010-11-23T05:03:27Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Having consensual sex with a prostitute then not paying her is analogous to shoplifting. Actually I think it would be more akin to fraud. Somewhat like defrauding an innkeeper by staying in a room and then skipping out on the bill. Shoplifting is usually covert, with the goal being to abscond with the goods without having been detected. ETA: Or what **Princhester** said. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/18 "2010-11-23T06:09:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Actually I think it would be more akin to fraud. Somewhat like defrauding an innkeeper by staying in a room and then skipping out on the bill. Yep. Or like eating in a restaurant and then skipping without paying the check. You have contracted for a service, then after receiving the service, you refuse to pay the bill. Theft of services. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/19 "2010-11-23T06:34:04Z")
You know, from a legal standpoint this raises an interesting question. IIRC, a person cannot be legally bound to honor the terms of a contract pertaining to illegal activity. So from a legal standpoint (and assuming we’re not talking about areas of Nevada where prostitution is legal), if a person were to have consensual sex with a prostitute and then refuse to pay, would that refusal be illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/20 "2010-11-23T06:38:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You know, from a legal standpoint this raises an interesting question. IIRC, a person cannot be legally bound to honor the terms of a contract pertaining to illegal activity. So from a legal standpoint (and assuming we’re not talking about areas of Nevada where prostitution is legal), if a person were to have consensual sex with a prostitute and then refuse to pay, would that refusal be illegal? Maybe, but the soliciting certainly would be, whether he paid or not. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612.md?page=2)