# is raping a prostitute the same as shoplifting? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612 "2010-11-23T02:28:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sofis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Sofis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofis)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/21 "2010-11-23T07:13:09Z")
Given that prostitutes provide services rather than goods, the more reasonable comparison would be with slavery. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/22 "2010-11-23T07:19:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Maybe, but the soliciting certainly would be, whether he paid or not. Yeah, but the point is, unlike in the case of fraud or shoplifting, refusal to pay in this scenario would not itself be illegal. Therefore, in a technical sense I suppose it isn’t accurate to consider refusal to pay as analogous to either of those other two crimes. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/23 "2010-11-23T07:21:21Z")
This question has been pondered by [one of the greatest minds of our time](http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6408/shoplifting.png). ---
**Author:** ![MinkyBinks735](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@MinkyBinks735](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinkyBinks735)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/24 "2010-11-23T22:11:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And did you find this “joke” amusing? this is completely irrelevant but um, not necessarily… ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/25 "2010-11-23T22:38:29Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yeah, but the point is, unlike in the case of fraud or shoplifting, refusal to pay in this scenario would not itself be illegal. Therefore, in a technical sense I suppose it isn’t accurate to consider refusal to pay as analogous to either of those other two crimes. Which is why nearly all prostitutes require up-front payment, usually for a set amount of time - and then set a timer to running. However, at least among the Nevada professionals, the’re usually not TOO strict about going a little over the alloted time if it’s [ahem] taking a little longer than anticipated to fulfill the contract\* \*better not to ask how I know these things…😉 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/26 "2010-11-23T22:44:50Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Can you present your reasoning for asking the question? At least he didn’t add “Need answer fast!” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/27 "2010-11-23T22:46:10Z")
On a related note, is dating a prostitute the same as shoplifting from her pimp? ---
**Author:** ![MinkyBinks735](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@MinkyBinks735](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinkyBinks735)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/28 "2010-11-23T23:03:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > On a related note, is dating a prostitute the same as shoplifting from her pimp? dating, no. sex, yes ---
**Author:** ![smileybastard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@smileybastard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smileybastard)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/29 "2010-11-24T00:31:50Z")
In the exact same way that killing someone to take their heart because they signed their organ donor card is simple theft. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/30 "2010-11-24T04:31:17Z")
It’s true that someone who deals in an illegal but still highly-desired trade (drugs, prostitution, murder-for-hire) does not have any legal recourse should a client take advantage of goods or services without compensating them. That doesn’t make theft from them morally neutral or permissible. It means the law is inadequate. It also doesn’t protect said thieves from broken legs or retaliatory gunshot wounds. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/31 "2010-11-24T04:48:50Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > No, neither legally nor morally. Whether for love, recreation, or financial consideration, every person has the choice as to who they consent to having sex with and who they refuse. Further, rape is not just sex, it’s typically a violent crime, with violence real or implied. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/32 "2010-11-24T04:55:52Z")
And then there was the prostitute who didn’t know she’d been raped until the check bounced. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/33 "2010-11-24T04:59:08Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > It’s true that someone who deals in an illegal but still highly-desired trade (drugs, prostitution, murder-for-hire) does not have any legal recourse should a client take advantage of goods or services without compensating them. That doesn’t make theft from them morally neutral or permissible. It means the law is inadequate. The law is inadequate because it does not provide recourse to someone who was not paid for carrying out a hit? An _interesting_ point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/34 "2010-11-24T15:40:56Z")
> [@MinkyBinks735](#): > > dating, no. sex, yes I’m thinking you don’t know much about how the relationships between prostitutes and pimps really work. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/35 "2010-11-24T16:29:15Z")
Here, MinkyBinks, [knock](http://womensissues.about.com/od/rapesexualassault/a/Wuornos.htm) [yourself](http://www.rapeis.org/activism/prostitution/sexworkerscivilrights.htm) [out](http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/survivor_writings/000245.html). If any of that sounds like shoplifting, you and I don’t know the same petty thieves. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/36 "2010-11-24T18:04:47Z")
Wow. A rape joke thread. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/37 "2010-11-24T22:58:17Z")
> [@Sofis](#): > > Given that prostitutes provide services rather than goods, the more reasonable comparison would be with slavery. So if someone hires me to mow his lawn and he doesn’t pay me, instead of a civil breach of contract, he should be charged with slavery? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/38 "2010-11-25T01:10:33Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > So if someone hires me to mow his lawn and he doesn’t pay me, instead of a civil breach of contract, he should be charged with slavery? No, with mowpery. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/39 "2010-11-25T01:38:54Z")
…on a related note: prostitution is legal here in NZ. There was a recent case of a policeman who was sentenced to two years jail for using a threat to get sex with a prostitute. > **[Guilty verdict for police officer who extorted free sex from prostitute - NZ...](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/guilty-verdict-for-police-officer-who-extorted-free-sex-from-prostitute/ZOXVSABQ5VCHEFCMLRCPSVUMCY/?c_id=612&objectid=10609983)** > > Latest breaking news articles, photos, video, blogs, reviews, analysis, opinion and reader comment from New Zealand and around the World - NZ Herald Not the same situation as the OP postulates, but just an example of how the legal situation would work in a country with legalized prostitution. ---
**Author:** ![MinkyBinks735](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@MinkyBinks735](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MinkyBinks735)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612/40 "2010-11-25T02:38:28Z")
The whole concept is that you are supposed to pay for something and you “take it” but don’t pay, then what is that? stealing. stealing = shoplifting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-raping-a-prostitute-the-same-as-shoplifting/561612.md?page=3)