# Is recording songs playing on the radio legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 18, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623 "2007-09-18T16:35:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bstenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@bstenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bstenger)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/1 "2007-09-18T16:35:38Z")
I’m pretty sure it is, but if I’m right, why? Why is it legal to tape songs that a radio station is playing, but it’s not legal (I’m pretty sure) to record songs your friend is playing? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/2 "2007-09-18T16:41:22Z")
I’m fairly sure it’s not legal. You’re making an illegal copy of copyrighted material. ---
**Author:** ![bstenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@bstenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bstenger)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/3 "2007-09-18T16:46:17Z")
I’m pretty sure you’re wrong. By your rationale, it’s illegal to use a VCR or DVD recorder to copy tv shows and movies. ---
**Author:** ![Mikemike2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikemike2/32/305_2.png) [@Mikemike2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikemike2)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/4 "2007-09-18T16:51:50Z")
It would depend what country you are talking about. In Canada I’m pretty sure it would be legal as there is a tax on recordable media that pays music companies for this type of copying. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/5 "2007-09-18T16:53:49Z")
It seems it’s legal to record off the radio, to “time shift” in Australia. I’m not sure if it is legal or not in the United States. In the United States the Betamax ruling of 1984 made it a fair use of copyrighted material to record programmes off the television to be watched at a later date, however I’m not certain whether this was also applied to radio. One reason why there might be a difference is that a television programme might only be aired once but the format of radio has songs being aired on rotation. This is just supposition on my part. To answer your original question(s) in Australia at least recording off the radio is classified as a “fair use” of copyrighted material. Copying songs from a friend is not a “fair use”. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/6 "2007-09-18T17:02:21Z")
[QUOTE=An Gadaí] I’m fairly sure it’s not legal. You’re making an illegal copy of copyrighted material. [/QUOTE] I’d bet it’s OK as long as you use it for non-commercial, private use. DVR anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/7 "2007-09-18T17:10:16Z")
There is a carve out for digital and analog tape recordings of music used for noncommercial purposes. It was part of the Audio Home Recording Act. > [@](#): > > § 1008. Prohibition on certain infringement actions > > No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings. > **[17 U.S. Code § 1008 - Prohibition on certain infringement actions](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1008)** ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/8 "2007-09-18T17:11:23Z")
Time shifting video is legal. I don’t know if the same is true of audio – I don’t think there’s been a ruling – but due to the history, it’s unlikely there ever was a ruling and also likely that it would be declared legal anyway via the law on video. Also, recording via audio tape is legal because part of the price of the tape is paid in royalties to allow for recording. As for the difference, the time shifting exemption applies to broadcasts, which are played at set times that you might not be able to catch. However, your friend’s tape can be played at any time, so you do not have to make a copy it to listen to the music. Since you can listen to his CD without making a copy, the argument that allowed time shifting is moot. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/9 "2007-09-18T17:11:57Z")
In both the US and EU, It [is legal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_music_ripping#Legal_issues) to record songs off the radio for private use. However, the recording industry has [been challenging](http://www.networkworld.com/news/2006/051706-record-labels-sue-xm-radio.html) the right to do that with digital technology, most notably in a suit against [XM radio](http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004679.php). ---
**Author:** ![bstenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@bstenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bstenger)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/10 "2007-09-18T17:12:05Z")
[QUOTE=Mikemike2] It would depend what country you are talking about. In Canada I’m pretty sure it would be legal as there is a tax on recordable media that pays music companies for this type of copying. [/QUOTE] Cool. I just found this: > [@](#): > > Can I legally copy music CDs for my friends? > > The simple answer is NO, but you can legally copy your friend’s music CD for YOUR OWN use.Can I legally copy music CDs for my friends? [http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml#copy\_for\_friends](http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml#copy_for_friends) But this is weird: > [@](#): > > Can I make private copies of movies, audiobooks, or software? > > NO. The Private Copying Regime only addresses making private copies for your own use of sound recordings of musical works. [http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml#copy\_a\_movie](http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml#copy_a_movie) So, in Canada you can legally copy music that isn’t yours (from a friend’s CD) but you can’t make a back up copy of a movie you paid for. Weird. [QUOTE=An Gadaí] To answer your original question(s) in Australia at least recording off the radio is classified as a “fair use” of copyrighted material. Copying songs from a friend is not a “fair use”. [/quote] I’m pretty sure that’s the way it is in the U.S. also, but I don’t understand why. Why is it fair to make a copy from a CD that’s not mine that someone is playing on my radio, but not make a copy from a CD that’s not mine playing on my boombox? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/11 "2007-09-18T17:14:28Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] Time shifting video is legal. [/QUOTE] The other thing about time shifting is that the Court in the \*Betamax \* case, at best, only approved of recording, watching, and then deleting. The Court never said you could keep the copy indefinitely. I think you know this **RealityChuck** ; I’m just clarifying for others. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/12 "2007-09-18T17:14:59Z")
Damn, I forgot about the AHRA. I read about that when doing my undergrad thesis. [QUOTE=bstenger] I’m pretty sure that’s the way it is in the U.S. also, but I don’t understand why. Why is it fair to make a copy from a CD that’s not mine that someone is playing on my radio, but not make a copy from a CD that’s not mine playing on my boombox? [/QUOTE] ## I believe RealityChuck has addressed this as well as I can below “As for the difference, the time shifting exemption applies to broadcasts, which are played at set times that you might not be able to catch. However, your friend’s tape can be played at any time, so you do not have to make a copy it to listen to the music. Since you can listen to his CD without making a copy, the argument that allowed time shifting is moot.” ---
**Author:** ![bstenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@bstenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bstenger)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/13 "2007-09-18T17:17:40Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] As for the difference, the time shifting exemption applies to broadcasts, which are played at set times that you might not be able to catch. However, your friend’s tape can be played at any time, so you do not have to make a copy it to listen to the music. Since you can listen to his CD without making a copy, the argument that allowed time shifting is moot. [/QUOTE] Is this a fact? It may be harder to catch what songs you’re interested in when playing on the radio, but I don’t see why this should make a difference. Once done, you still have a copy of a song you didn’t pay for. Also, some radio stations announce that they will be playing a certain album side at a certain time and movies and shows on TV are certainly announced ahead of time. Taping Forrest Gump when it’s on HBO- legal. Taping your friend’s copy of Forrest Gump- illegal. Makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/14 "2007-09-18T17:19:13Z")
[QUOTE=bstenger] Taping Forrest Gump when it’s on HBO- legal. Taping your friend’s copy of Forrest Gump- illegal. Makes no sense. [/QUOTE] In one case, you’ve already paid royalties when you purchased the recording media; in the other–not. ---
**Author:** ![bstenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@bstenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bstenger)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/15 "2007-09-18T17:20:42Z")
[QUOTE=Gfactor] The other thing about time shifting is that the Court in the \*Betamax \* case, at best, only approved of recording, watching, and then deleting. The Court never said you could keep the copy indefinitely. I think you know this **RealityChuck** ; I’m just clarifying for others. [/QUOTE] So it may be illegal to tape a movie played on television and not destroy or record over the tape after it’s been watched? ---
**Author:** ![bstenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@bstenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bstenger)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/16 "2007-09-18T17:22:08Z")
[QUOTE=Gfactor] In one case, you’ve already paid royalties when you purchased the recording media; in the other–not. [/QUOTE] How’s that? The recording media is the same regardless of what the source is. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/17 "2007-09-18T17:24:58Z")
[QUOTE=bstenger] So it may be illegal to tape a movie played on television and not destroy or record over the tape after it’s been watched? [/QUOTE] Some say it’s fair use. It probably isn’t. No court has said it is. We discussed this here: [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcopyright2.htm](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcopyright2.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/18 "2007-09-18T17:28:04Z")
[QUOTE=bstenger] How’s that? The recording media is the same regardless of what the source is. [/QUOTE] Review the AHRA, and you’ll see that Congress disagrees. ---
**Author:** ![bstenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@bstenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bstenger)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/19 "2007-09-18T17:34:00Z")
[QUOTE=Gfactor] Review the AHRA, and you’ll see that Congress disagrees. [/QUOTE] Congress disagrees with what? You said, “In one case, you’ve already paid royalties when you purchased the recording media; in the other–not.” If I buy a a blank VCR tape, I can tape a movie on TV with it or a movie from a DVD with it. Are you saying that Congress says the royalties were or weren’t paid for when I bought the tape depending on what source I use to record the same movie? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623/20 "2007-09-18T17:59:28Z")
[QUOTE=bstenger] Congress disagrees with what? You said, “In one case, you’ve already paid royalties when you purchased the recording media; in the other–not.” If I buy a a blank VCR tape, I can tape a movie on TV with it or a movie from a DVD with it. Are you saying that Congress says the royalties were or weren’t paid for when I bought the tape depending on what source I use to record the same movie? [/QUOTE] It’s called the \*audio \* home recording act. It imposes a royalty on . . . . \*audio \* tapes, and only exempts recordings of music. If you can fit the \*audio \* tape into your \*video \* cassette recorder , let’s talk. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recording-songs-playing-on-the-radio-legal/419623.md?page=2)