# Is Recycling a Scam?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [March 10, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896 "2019-03-10T16:51:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/1 "2019-03-10T16:51:47Z")
I’ve come across [two](https://earther.gizmodo.com/recycling-is-broken-1833063010?fbclid=IwAR3TmVHZtEiCcJ1HcDlMonlRZ0RH2aItAiz-le4IBlqVUm_M5x4I_NIuXrw) [articles](https://canadafreepress.com/article/china-exposes-the-recycling-scams-dirty-secret) in recent days that make me question whether separating our recyclables is indeed doing any good. Do the trash companies just dump everything in the landfills, regardless of whether or not it can be recycled? I’ve reached out to my town officials and they have said they will check.
---
### Author:  [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/2 "2019-03-10T17:06:49Z")
I think the answer is “maybe”. It sort of depends on the perspective you’re coming from. It sounds like you’re asking about the stories of all the countries in Asia that we used to send our recyclables to not accepting them or limiting how much they will take recently.
In that light, yeah maybe, for certain things, mainly plastics.
I think, based on a few shows I’ve seen over the years, that this may be a “temporary” thing as new ways are discovered and developed to process and reuse plastics.
Where I work, we have switched to a 40 yd compactor for paper and cardboard, our old 1yd compacter/baler sits unused as it is designated for sheet plastics (stretch wrap, trash bags and the like) but we have to pay to get rid of the plastic. We also have a brand new machine for processing styrene foam for recycling that is as yet unused, in large part because we have not yet found a more economical way to get rid of it beyond throwing it in the trash. Which is a shame, as my understanding is that styrene foam is the easiest most recyclable plastic there is.
---
### Author:  [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/3 "2019-03-10T17:42:26Z")
For some things in some streams it’s an actual viable business.
E.g., grocery stores sell their crush boxes to recyclers. These people aren’t buying them just for the fun of it.
I remember several years back when China started to enter the US recycling market. They were buying up all the paper they could get their hands on, creating a problem for US recyclers who had made money for years selling it cardboard makers.
If it makes sense to pay for something and ship it to China, it’s real.
In our state the carpet makers would love it if all the plastic soda bottles were recycled. They love using that.
Aluminum recycling is a classic money earner in recycling.
But not everything. Glass is not worth much if anything. And mixed stuff is a major issue.
It’s a “YMMV” thing, not at all a scam.
---
### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/4 "2019-03-10T18:04:35Z")
Aluminum recycling works great. Recycling aluminum cans plus scrap aluminum collection greatly reduce the production of new aluminum and now the price is very competitive with steel thanks to the current trade situation.
---
### Author:  [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/5 "2019-03-10T18:18:24Z")
But is my local trash company actually recycling? That’s what I want to know. I fear if I ask them it will be, “Of course, my good woman! Perish the thought!”
---
### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/6 "2019-03-10T18:20:33Z")
Do you have separate pick-ups for recycling and regular trash?
---
### Author:  [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/7 "2019-03-10T20:09:34Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> Do you have separate pick-ups for recycling and regular trash?
Yes. Trash pickup Mon and Thurs, recycling on Wednesday.
---
### Author:  [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/8 "2019-03-10T20:20:56Z")
I would hesitate to use the word “scam” as, to me, that implies a deliberate deception intended on separating one from their money.
Perhaps I would say that the promise of recycling is greatly overstated, for the reasons cited. Whereas the original intentions are noble, the ongoing execution suffers because of unanticipated barriers to success. ISTM that a major rethinking and reforms are in needed.
---
### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/9 "2019-03-10T20:36:01Z")
The old slogan was “Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle”. Well, most people don’t bother with the first two Rs there, and think that just sorting their ‘recyclables’ solves the whole problem.
But since China started rejecting our recyclables a few years ago (a documentary about the miseries of families working for a pittance and living amongst America’s garbage to convert recyclables into products nobody wanted inflamed public opinion about the industry and it was largely shut down), the majority of recyclables in this country goes into landfills now. No one wants it, unless it’s aluminum or other scrap metal. Too much of it is too dirty (food, industrial, chemical residue on the material) to recycle anyway.
(check out 99% Invisible’s 2/12/2019 podcast, National Sword for an interesting discussion on this)
Looks like we need to focus in on Reduce and Reuse.
---
### Author:  [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/10 "2019-03-10T20:36:20Z")
It’s a policy with broad public support based on people meaning well, but of dubious value, and like any policy after awhile has vested interests very reluctant to see it reversed whether it adds value or not.
Lots of policies like that. Ethanol is another. IMO, not to say those two are exactly the same, and it’s probably at least somewhat valid to say ‘it depends’. But non-metals consumer trash recycling broadly speaking adding compelling net economic value in the US? I doubt it.
---
### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/11 "2019-03-10T20:41:20Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#):
>
> families working for a pittance and living amongst America’s garbage to convert recyclables into products nobody wanted inflamed public opinion about the industry and it was largely shut down)
I figured the first part had something to do with it - that recycling from dirty sources required a lot of manual labor and the standard of living in China has been rising so much that they might have problems finding the labor for such a labor-intensive task, but I did not know about the uselessness of the end products nor the changing of public opinion in China (rather than the “voting with their feet” by potential employees). Interesting!
---
### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [March 10, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/12 "2019-03-10T20:49:49Z")
> [@ivylass](#):
>
> But is my local trash company actually recycling? That’s what I want to know.
By now I’ve learned that, if you make the thread title a question, people will answer that question instead of responding to the text of the OP.
---
### Author:  [@WildBlueYonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildBlueYonder)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2019, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/13 "2019-03-11T12:41:45Z")
I dont think its a scam, how could it be?
> [@ivylass](#):
>
> ? I’ve reached out to my town officials and they have said they will check.
Um yeah, never hear from them again, unless you call back and annoy them, they’ll finally give up the ghost
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#):
>
> Looks like we need to focus in on Reduce and Reuse.
So very true
> [@ftg](#):
>
> For some things in some streams it’s an actual viable business.
>
> E.g., grocery stores sell their crush boxes to recyclers. These people aren’t buying them just for the fun of it.
>
> I remember several years back when China started to enter the US recycling market. They were buying up all the paper they could get their hands on, creating a problem for US recyclers who had made money for years selling it cardboard makers.
>
> If it makes sense to pay for something and ship it to China, it’s real.
>
> In our state the carpet makers would love it if all the plastic soda bottles were recycled. They love using that.
>
> Aluminum recycling is a classic money earner in recycling.
>
> But not everything. Glass is not worth much if anything. And mixed stuff is a major issue.
>
> It’s a “YMMV” thing, not at all a scam.
Paper “et al” recycling has been going on for decades. We did that as fund raising in the early 70’s.
My husband scraps whatever he can for money. The rest of it is non recycling items and garbage. If it can burn, that’s what happens. Husband doesnt like to burn food scraps and bones so that goes to a landfill. Not a whole lot we cant burn outside the plastic. I wont let him burn plastic and he came around to that too.
Our recyclables come down to about 95% plastic, the other 5% would be items we cant separate like metal-aluminum jar lids with a rubber ring attached which all goes that gets recycled at the county bins.
Aluminum seems to be the most lucrative and of course Copper is probably more.
Dont send copper anything to the land fill, any scrapper would probably buy it from you.
Glass can be broken down and reused but do they actually do it anymore?
There is a sorting facility in a near by county…course they could be doing anything in there???
---
### Author:  [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2019, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/14 "2019-03-11T13:32:37Z")
> [@ivylass](#):
>
> But is my local trash company actually recycling? That’s what I want to know. I fear if I ask them it will be, “Of course, my good woman! Perish the thought!”
I hope not. “Perish the thought” means the exact opposite of “Of course.”
---
### Author:  [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2019, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/15 "2019-03-11T13:38:58Z")
> [@WildBlueYonder](#):
>
> I dont think its a scam, how could it be?
In my neighbourhood, we have to separate recyclables and rubbish and put them into two separate bins. Supposedly, we can be fined if we don’t separate our recyclables.
> **[Bin sinners fined £110: Getting your recycling wrong will cost you more than...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333030/110-spot-fine-recycling-council-introduces-measure-Greens-hate.html)**
>
> Tens of thousands of families face on-the-spot fines of £110 if they put rubbish in the wrong bins as another council brings in compulsory recycling.
Each Friday, one truck comes by to empty the rubbish bins, and another truck comes by to pick up the recycling. Our taxes are higher because we’re paying for two separate collections. We’d recycle anyway, even if it meant taking our recyclables down to the local collection point, but I’m glad for the convenience of curbside recycling. So I’d be angry if I was being ordered to recycle, threatened with penalties if I didn’t, paying for an extra collection, and it was all going to the landfill anyway. And yes, I’d view paying for a service I wasn’t receiving and being deceived by the council in the process as a scam.
---
### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2019, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/16 "2019-03-11T14:10:16Z")
> [@ivylass](#):
>
> Yes. Trash pickup Mon and Thurs, recycling on Wednesday.
That’s a pretty good sign that they are recycling. You’ll have to check your local facility but the recycling process generally produces additional revenue for the locality and/or processor that wouldn’t be ignored once the materials are separated. It’s certainly not a nationwide scam, if they weren’t attempting to recycle the materials it will eventually come to light.
---
### Author:  [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/17 "2019-03-11T15:15:02Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> That’s a pretty good sign that they are recycling. You’ll have to check your local facility but the recycling process generally produces additional revenue for the locality and/or processor that wouldn’t be ignored once the materials are separated. It’s certainly not a nationwide scam, if they weren’t attempting to recycle the materials it will eventually come to light.
Possibly. I remember listening to a [Planet Money episode](https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=395815221) where they talked to a recycling facility supervisor in NY. He basically said a lot of it is market driven.
If they can get enough money from selling the bulk recycled items to make it worthwhile then they will. If they cant, well…then they just throw it away like other trash.
> [@](#):
>
> VANEK SMITH: I know, it was. Tom, you can kind of tell, David, is sort of a quiet guy. He kept turning away from my microphone. And he got into recycling because he wanted to do something to help the environment. But he’s the first person to tell me that recycling is a business.
>
> KESTENBAUM: It’s actually a huge business. What did you say? It’s like hundreds of billions or something.
>
> VANEK SMITH: Yeah, it’s $100 billion. Yeah.
>
> KESTENBAUM: So you have to think about this as a business to understand the problems the recycling businesses is having, right. For it to make sense for him to recycle something, he has to be able to make a profit at it. If he can, then that thing is recyclable. If he can’t, then its trash. Trash and recycling, those are really economic ideas.
---
### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/18 "2019-03-11T15:24:18Z")
> [@Hermitian](#):
>
> Possibly. I remember listening to a [Planet Money episode](https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=395815221) where they talked to a recycling facility supervisor in NY. He basically said a lot of it is market driven.
>
> If they can get enough money from selling the bulk recycled items to make it worthwhile then they will. If they cant, well…then they just throw it away like other trash.
That makes sense. They’ll always be able to sell the aluminum at a profit. Demand for glass, plastic, and paper will vary. Since processing costs money, the materials have to be properly sorted and cleaned and if they don’t think that material will produce any revenue there’s no point in doing the processing. That doesn’t make it any kind of rip off unless they don’t even try to recycle.
---
### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/19 "2019-03-11T16:52:54Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> Since processing costs money, the materials have to be properly sorted and cleaned and if they don’t think that material will produce any revenue there’s no point in doing the processing.
Not quite. Landfilling stuff costs money. So if the recycling costs less than the landfilling then it is still worth doing.
---
### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896/20 "2019-03-11T17:06:02Z")
> [@PastTense](#):
>
> Not quite. Landfilling stuff costs money. So if the recycling costs less than the landfilling then it is still worth doing.
That’s correct. I should have said if no one will take the recyclables it’s not worth doing. It doesn’t have to generate a profit or any revenue at all as long as it ends up costing less than sending the material to a landfill.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-recycling-a-scam/830896.md?page=2)