# Is Refusal To Accept Certified Mail Fraud? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504 "2013-09-23T12:20:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/21 "2013-09-23T18:12:12Z")
The IRS sends really important stuff (like, the stuff that says-- yo, you’ve got 30 days or we’re levying the hell out of your bank account) via Certified Mail. Many taxpayers think that if they refuse the letter, nothing can go forward. Untrue. All the IRS has to do is prove that they mailed it, not that you received it. It isn’t their fault you refuse to check your mail. I suspect this is the case with other entities, too, but I can’t say for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/22 "2013-09-23T18:14:03Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > The IRS sends really important stuff (like, the stuff that says-- yo, you’ve got 30 days or we’re levying the hell out of your bank account) via Certified Mail. Many taxpayers think that if they refuse the letter, nothing can go forward. > > Untrue. All the IRS has to do is prove that they mailed it, not that you received it. It isn’t their fault you refuse to check your mail. > > I suspect this is the case with other entities, too, but I can’t say for sure. ninja’d 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/23 "2013-09-23T20:22:25Z")
It just seems persnickety to me to refuse to sign for mail. I can’t think of one good reason for that policy. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/24 "2013-09-23T20:35:33Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > It just seems persnickety to me to refuse to sign for mail. I can’t think of one good reason for that policy. I am at work the whole time during the week the Post Office is open. I work far from home and the Post Office isn’t even close to where I live. Any certified letters to me are always going to end up there because I am never around when the Postal Carrier tries to make the delivery. The only possible time I could go get it from the Post Office is Saturday morning before the Post Office closes at noon. No thanks. I sleep in on Saturdays and there is no way I am rushing down to pick up a letter in person just because someone else wants to be a pain in the ass. They can all go straight back to where they came from. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/25 "2013-09-23T21:32:02Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > For example, when I send them out it’s basically to tell someone that they bounced a check and that they need to come in and take care of it or it’s going to get turned over to the police. That’s how it works at the store I work at too. I think it’s part of the law, but I’m not sure. But in our case, it gets turned over to the state’s attorney for prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/26 "2013-09-23T21:40:50Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I hope it isn’t fraud. I have a personal policy to never sign for registered mail. I just let it go sit and the Post Office until it gets returned. I assume that whatever it is has the receipt for the sender’s benefit and not mine so I just refuse to play that game. They will have to find a more civil way to get the message to me if it is really that important. I have no idea what most of them were ever for. Wow, this is very unwise. For example, the IRS will send out a Statutory Notice of Deficiency by Certified Mail. You have 90 days- by Statute- to reply. If you fail to take action before the 90 days tolls, the deficiency (tax) is assessed and you owe it. Period. Telling the Tax Court “I just refuse to play that game” won’t work. And, as long as the IRS mailed it to the “last known address’ it doesn’t matter if you sign or don’t sign or whatever. After 90 days of inaction on your part, you owe the money. Legally. eta like what **DiosaBellissima** sez. Next, Insurance companies and banks send out similar letters to those who may have unclaimed funds. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/27 "2013-09-23T21:42:30Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I am at work the whole time during the week the Post Office is open. I work far from home and the Post Office isn’t even close to where I live. \*\*Any certified letters to me are always going to end up there because I am never around when the Postal Carrier tries to make the delivery. \*\*The only possible time I could go get it from the Post Office is Saturday morning before the Post Office closes at noon. No thanks. I sleep in on Saturdays and there is no way I am rushing down to pick up a letter in person just because someone else wants to be a pain in the ass. They can all go straight back to where they came from. My bold That’s different. Your post made it sound like you flat refuse to sign and likewise refuse delivery right to the Postal Carrier’s face. But there could occasionally be something good in there. The person sending it isn’t always a pain in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/28 "2013-09-23T21:47:26Z")
Well, what can they do to me? They can take your bank account and your house, garnish your paycheck, seize your car and other assets- because “I just refuse to play that game” . :rolleyes: In other words, they will play their “game” whether you want to play or not, it’s not your choice. I’d get out of bed on saturdays, if I was you… that is if you want to have a bed rather than a bus bench. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/29 "2013-09-23T21:52:00Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I have a personal policy to never sign for registered mail. How often are you receiving (or not receiving I should say) registered mail that you had to develop a “personal policy” to deal with it? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/30 "2013-09-23T22:19:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I’d get out of bed on saturdays, if I was you… that is if you want to have a bed rather than a bus bench. Or you could just get a Post Office Box. Then they’ll leave it and you can fill out the return receipt at your leisure. ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/31 "2013-09-23T22:46:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Or you could just get a Post Office Box. Then they’ll leave it and you can fill out the return receipt at your leisure. Wouldn’t he still be subject to the Post Office’s limited hours? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/32 "2013-09-23T22:55:35Z")
PO Boxes are generally in an area of the Post Office that can be entered after hours, so you can pick up your mail whenever. Not sure if that’s universal, though. You can also have a non-USPS post box and access it whenever. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/33 "2013-09-23T22:57:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Or you could just get a Post Office Box. Then they’ll leave it and you can fill out the return receipt at your leisure. You still have to sign for the mail. I’m guessing they just put the card in the box and you take it to the desk. Otherwise you could just take it, not sign for it and they’d have no proof that you received it. (I assume, I don’t have a PO Box) ETA, often times certified mail goes to your ‘last known address’, so if you bounced a check, it’s going to the address on the check. If you didn’t pay your rent, it’s going to where you’re living, you’re electricity is about to get cut off, they’ll send it to (I assume) the address where the service is and/or the billing address. These may or may not be the same as the PO Box that you have. ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/34 "2013-09-23T22:59:00Z")
Not if you have to sign for it, though; you’d still need access to a postal employee. A non-USPS box would work, but they’re generally much more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/35 "2013-09-23T23:38:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I’d get out of bed on saturdays, if I was you… that is if you want to have a bed rather than a bus bench. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > How often are you receiving (or not receiving I should say) registered mail that you had to develop a “personal policy” to deal with it? Exactly this. How often are you getting Certified letters? I’ve personally received exactly one in the last two years. Of course, I pay all my debts, so I don’t exactly have people trying to legally serve me warnings. If I got a missed Certified notice tomorrow, it’d be such an anomaly I’d make a special trip the post office to get it— because who the hell is sending me a freaking Certified letter? Now, our business gets a whole stack of Certified letters a day, but that’s because we represent a bunch of folks who don’t pay their taxes. > [@Running\_with\_Scissors](#): > > Not if you have to sign for it, though; you’d still need access to a postal employee. A non-USPS box would work, but they’re generally much more expensive. They’ll leave the little tag in your PO Box. You sign it, put it back in the box, and the next day they’ll put the letter in there, no? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/36 "2013-09-24T00:35:43Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Exactly this. How often are you getting Certified letters? I’ve personally received exactly one in the last two years. Of course, I pay all my debts, so I don’t exactly have people trying to legally serve me warnings. If I got a missed Certified notice tomorrow, it’d be such an anomaly I’d make a special trip the post office to get it— because who the hell is sending me a freaking Certified letter? And on top of that, what if there’s some mistake? Maybe the bank screwed something up and your final car payment from two years ago was off by $40 and they need you to come and take care of it or there’s a construction lien on your house from when the old owners put a new roof on and you need to deal with that. Those things happen, but ignore the letter and the next thing that will happen is that you’ll get served with papers requesting that you appear in court and you won’t be able to say ‘no one told me about this’. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/37 "2013-09-24T00:38:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, what can they do to me? They can take your bank account and your house, garnish your paycheck, seize your car and other assets- because “I just refuse to play that game” . :rolleyes: > > In other words, they will play their “game” whether you want to play or not, it’s not your choice. > > I’d get out of bed on saturdays, if I was you… that is if you want to have a bed rather than a bus bench. Under my circumstances, no. Almost all of the ones I get are from the IRS or one of several state tax agencies. I don’t have any control over it from business or personal perspective and I don’t have to pay any of the bills myself (it is fairly unusual circumstances). I have attorneys and CPA’s to deal with them and they always do. All I care about are the eventual checks that come months later from the same parties and they just send those in the regular mail. I would do the same thing with any certified or registered letter however. I even refuse to send back e-mail read receipts. I don’t just don’t like the style. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/38 "2013-09-24T00:58:51Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Delivery refusal can be tracked but to find that out, sending it certified isn’t sufficient. Send it certified with delivery confirmation. The USPS no longer offers a service called “Delivery Confirmation.” [That service was replaced with “USPS Tracking”](http://blog.stamps.com/2013/06/27/delivery-confirmation-is-now-call-usps-tracking/) although for the time being they are still referring to it as USPS Tracking/Delivery Confirmation in some of their promotional materials to aid in the transition. USPS Tracking/Delivery Confirmation cannot be used with regular letter-sized mail unless it is sent at the Priority Mail rate. [It can only be used on parcels (including First Class parcels) and Priority Mail.](http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/503.htm#1232487) In any case, USPS Tracking/Delivery Confirmation is not needed with Certified Mail since [Certified Mail provides all the same features:](http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/503.htm#1063590) > [@](#): > > Certified Mail service provides the sender with a mailing receipt and, upon request, electronic verification that an article was delivered or that a delivery attempt was made. Customers can retrieve the delivery status in three ways: (1) over the Internet at [www.usps.com](http://www.usps.com) by entering the article number shown on the mailing receipt; (2) by telephone at 1-800-222-1811; or (3) by bulk electronic file transfer for mailers who provide an electronic manifest to the USPS. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/39 "2013-09-24T00:59:26Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Under my circumstances, no. Almost all of the ones I get are from the IRS or one of several state tax agencies. I don’t have any control over it from business or personal perspective and I don’t have to pay any of the bills myself (it is fairly unusual circumstances). I have attorneys and CPA’s to deal with them and they always do. All I care about are the eventual checks that come months later from the same parties and they just send those in the regular mail. > > I would do the same thing with any certified or registered letter however. I even refuse to send back e-mail read receipts. I don’t just don’t like the style. Even your attorney or CP can’t help you much if they don’t get the notice they are supposed to answer. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504/40 "2013-09-24T02:00:48Z")
> [@Running\_with\_Scissors](#): > > Not if you have to sign for it, though; you’d still need access to a postal employee. A non-USPS box would work, but they’re generally much more expensive. And gets you the “I didn’t get it legal argument.” I found this out when my former landlord only gave a non-USPS mail box and when I sent legal paperwork and he didn’t show up, the judge said that since he didn’t sign for it, there was no proof he got served. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-refusal-to-accept-certified-mail-fraud/669504.md?page=3)