# Is religion a form of ignorance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 27, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003 "2017-10-27T17:35:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/282 "2017-11-10T06:56:43Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > Picture the Bible as a country through which one travels. Most of the inhabitants understand their environment by what is apparent to them. However, as you journey through this land you come across caves into which tne inhabitants never venture. On investigating you find that there is a secret “underworld” … inhabited by sophisticated intellects who have a very different world view to the above ground residents. IESOUS CHRISTOS, the Greek name of Jesus, anagrams to OSIRIS SET CHOUS, ‘chous’ is a Greek word meaning “a measure of capacity equal to 12 cups”. This anagram could, of course, be a coincidence … but I don’t think it is. And 12 cups is exactly how much wine you drink at a Seder. Or two Seders. If you are a lush. Coincidence? No! Wacko? Yes! Too bad Jesus didn’t speak Greek. > [@](#): > > Noah’s nakedness is the peninsular on which Athens stands. The cloak is the land mass of Greece south of Athens. And the Acropolis is the foreskin? That explains the moaning I heard when I walked up the hill to the Parthenon. ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/283 "2017-11-10T10:20:09Z")
Adam and Eve in tbe Garden of Eden is a spell. The Serpent, the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and the Tree of Life are one and the same thing … the penis. The serpent tempted Eve to taste the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Adam’s “fall” came about when he tasted it too. God then chased them out of the Garden before they could investigate the Tree of Life. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/284 "2017-11-10T11:34:26Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > Adam and Eve in tbe Garden of Eden is a spell. The Serpent, the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and the Tree of Life are one and the same thing … the penis. The serpent tempted Eve to taste the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Adam’s “fall” came about when he tasted it too. God then chased them out of the Garden before they could investigate the Tree of Life. I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/285 "2017-11-10T13:04:44Z")
Senior, that’s some heavy stuff you got going on there, although I can’t make the connection on any of it. Have you got to the book of Revelation yet? What’s your take on [Charlie Manson’s Revelation 9?](http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/manson/mansonrevelation.html) If you don’t agree with his, would love to hear yours! ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/286 "2017-11-10T19:15:04Z")
This is all a massive hijack, but it’s a fairly interesting/amusing massive hijack so I’ll roll with it. > [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > Picture the Bible as a country through which one travels. Most of the inhabitants understand their environment by what is apparent to them. However, as you journey through this land you come across caves into which tne inhabitants never venture. On investigating you find that there is a secret “underworld” … inhabited by sophisticated intellects who have a very different world view to the above ground residents. So you posit that the bible contains secret codes that represent deliberately hidden knowledge - knowledge deliberately hidden by a secret shadow organization that at no point elected to disseminate their information via methods that would allow it to reach the general populace. Only people prone to looking for riddles in things not presented as riddles would find this information. If this hidden information is useful or important for people, then the fact that it was deliberately withheld and hidden from the bulk of humanity shows that the sophisticated intellects that hid it were probably assholes. > [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > IESOUS CHRISTOS, the Greek name of Jesus, anagrams to OSIRIS SET CHOUS, ‘chous’ is a Greek word meaning “a measure of capacity equal to 12 cups”. This anagram could, of course, be a coincidence … but I don’t think it is. So, if I’m following, there was a person named Joshua Bar Joseph, who was postmortem referred to as ‘the anointed’, and whose given name and title were mangled by translation into Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, which is clumsily transliterated into the roman alphabet as IESOUS CHRISTOS, which can, after and _only_ after this transliteration, be anagrammed into some anglicized Egyptian deity names and a completely random roman-alphabet-transliterated Greek word. If somebody rigged this up deliberately, I wanna know who. ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/287 "2017-11-10T22:48:47Z")
The title of this tbread is ‘Is Religion a Form of Ignorance’. An acquaintance of mine invited me to his home. In the comfort of his living room he began subjecting me to the usual stuff about Jesus. His five year old son was in the room playing with his toys. Suddenly the child jumped up, placed himself between his father and myself, facing his father, and, in an extremely annoyed voice, said: "“BUT YOU’RE ONLY SAYING THAT!” He then went back to playing with his toys. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/288 "2017-11-10T22:56:26Z")
Once again you’ve lost me regarding your point. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/289 "2017-11-10T23:39:20Z")
Pat, I’d like to buy a vowel. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2017, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/290 "2017-11-11T00:30:35Z")
But you’re only saying that! We should that on priests and politicians. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/291 "2017-11-11T18:15:22Z")
Religion is basically a crutch for those too weak to accept reality. There is no shame in being weak. The shame comes when they try to pull you down to their level. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/292 "2017-11-11T19:08:36Z")
The phrase “crutch for those too weak” seems a little too harsh. It’s a support in time of sorrow or need; it’s a means of coping with life’s horrors. Same concept, just less disapproval in the phrasing. Totally agree that the sin comes when they try to foist their means of coping onto others who, thanks very much, might have completely different needs. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/293 "2017-11-11T20:21:58Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The phrase “crutch for those too weak” seems a little too harsh. It’s a support in time of sorrow or need; it’s a means of coping with life’s horrors. > > Same concept, just less disapproval in the phrasing. > > Totally agree that the sin comes when they try to foist their means of coping onto others who, thanks very much, might have completely different needs. It is certainly not too harsh. It is exactly that, no more and no less. Again, there is no shame in being weak, just in forcing your weakness on others. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/294 "2017-11-12T00:57:01Z")
Well, even if I agreed with that phrasing…religion is certainly more than only a crutch to support weakness. It is a source of inspiration for great creativity, and the origin of innumerable folk-tales, as well as works of fully-matured literature. It is a place that vast beauty has come from. And…too…it has been a force for change in the world, often producing improvements in society, and, alas, all too often promoting the sheerest and ugliest forms of horror. So I absolutely have to take issue with your “no more and no less” characterization. It has been much, much more – and occasionally has fallen far, far short. I definitely agree there is no shame in being weak. We all need a crutch now and then. I prefer one that is rooted in reality, not in make-believe, but I won’t sneer too hard at people who derive comfort from their faith. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/295 "2017-11-12T01:22:50Z")
For my father, who was a fairly intelligent guy, religion was no a crutch, as such. Rather, it was a sort of intense hobby, like HO-gauge or quilting is to some. I see this in others, too. They become deeply involved in the technicalities of doctrine the way some people become involved in the minutia of automotive performance or baseball trivia. Perhaps it made him feel like he was doing something truly worthwhile, because, what could be more important than that? But he kept it on a largely personal level amongst himself, his family and friends, not trying to impose it much outside his circle or decry unholiness in the law – which may have been based on the notion that _people are going to sin anyway, and if they do not want our help to find the righteous path, we can pray for their souls and not much else. Besides, heaven would be overcrowded if we saved everyone_. Or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/296 "2017-11-12T07:51:18Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Well, even if I agreed with that phrasing…religion is certainly more than only a crutch to support weakness. It is a source of inspiration for great creativity, and the origin of innumerable folk-tales, as well as works of fully-matured literature. It is a place that vast beauty has come from. > > And…too…it has been a force for change in the world, often producing improvements in society, and, alas, all too often promoting the sheerest and ugliest forms of horror. > > So I absolutely have to take issue with your “no more and no less” characterization. It has been much, much more – and occasionally has fallen far, far short. Bah! ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/297 "2017-11-12T09:58:31Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > **Bah**! You forgot to say ‘Humbug!’ ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/298 "2017-11-12T10:20:57Z")
To call religion a crutch is superficial. We shouldn’t confuse religion and superstition, or overestimate how much can be known through human senses, experience, and intellect. Two good quotes from Albert Einstein, who thought and wrote a lot about this: “The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naive. However, I am also not a ‘Freethinker’ in the usual sense of the word because I find that this is in the main an attitude nourished exclusively by an opposition against naive superstition. My feeling is insofar religious as I am imbued with the consciousness of the insufficiency of the human mind to understand deeply the harmony of the Universe which we try to formulate as ‘laws of nature.’ It is this consciousness and humility I miss in the Freethinker mentality.”   - Einstein “All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree. All these aspirations are directed toward ennobling man’s life, lifting it from the sphere of mere physical existence and leading the individual towards freedom. It is no mere chance that our older universities developed from clerical schools. Both churches and universities — insofar as they live up to their true function — serve the ennoblement of the individual.”   - Einstein ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/299 "2017-11-12T15:21:08Z")
Einstein? What did he know? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/300 "2017-11-12T17:02:23Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > You forgot to say ‘Humbug!’ Piffle. > [@kayaker](#): > > Einstein? > > What did he know? Yes, a one-hit wonder. (Two hits?) ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/301 "2017-11-12T17:28:17Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Einstein? > > What did he know? He was a pretty fair physicist, but so was Newton, and Newton had some batshit crazy ideas about religion. I wouldn’t say that about Einstein, but judging from those quotes about religion, he was a pretty fair physicist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003.md?page=16)