# Is religion a form of ignorance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 27, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003 "2017-10-27T17:35:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/81 "2017-10-28T22:22:01Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s threads like these that make me hesitant to identify myself as an atheist. And why should you? The normal human condition, after childhood, is to stop believing in silliness. Religion is a cultural imposition, initially established by odd individuals who were arguably not quite right-in-the-head. You are unimposed. You are a **normal** person. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/82 "2017-10-28T22:39:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This is a very facile view of religion. Evolution and the Big Bang are perfectly consistent with my religious beliefs. Why would you offer them up as examples of not being a believer? Maybe you can clue us in on the current view of the existence of Adam and Eve and the origin of original sin. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/83 "2017-10-28T22:45:38Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > You’re missing the point. The point is not whether Jews believe in an afterlife—the point is whether that’s the motivation for (and consequence of) their law. And, more broadly, whether the Jewish religion “comes from the fear of death,” as you claimed. Well, we don’t know where the Jewish religion comes from. Certainly not what is in the Bible. My understanding is that the afterlife is not an immediate thing, like in Christianity or Islam. That is why Elisha being transported to heaven was such a big deal, However everyone is going to be resurrected, which is why Orthodox Judaism does not allow autopsies or tattoos. You come out the way you come in. Just listened to a Lenny Bruce bit on tattoos and Judaism. On the other hand, when you pray for atonement you are praying to be written into the book of life for the next year, not to get into heaven. Still, lots of Jews, and even some rabbis, talk about heaven. Maybe this comes from tradition, or maybe it is contamination from Christianity. So I wouldn’t count fear of death out. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/84 "2017-10-28T22:47:43Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > They have extensive laws governing what you can and cannot do, as well as what you must do, in order to fulfill their end of the covenant with god. The consequences of not following those laws is being punished in the afterlife. No, the consequences of sinning is death, not being punished. And God being pissed at you, no small thing. Remember, the punishment for breaking many of the rules was definitely in this life, not the next. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/85 "2017-10-28T23:27:11Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Maybe you can clue us in on the current view of the existence of Adam and Eve and the origin of original sin. As I understand it, the Catholic perspective on those points (at least for the clerics) is that the early parts of Genesis are allegorical. Adam and Eve are symbolic and original sin represents man’s discovery of morality. The object lessons are clear – especially the part where Eve took the first bite (i.e., women will lead you unto evil). The literal interpretation of the torah books is common to only a small set of christian sects. I mean, look how popular pig bacon is everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/86 "2017-10-29T00:47:44Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > And why should you? The normal human condition, after childhood, is to stop believing in silliness. Religion is a cultural imposition, initially established by odd individuals who were arguably not quite right-in-the-head. You are unimposed. You are a **normal** person. I choose my religion, you have chosen yours. Hardcore Atheism, the kind that mocks other people faith, is indeed a religion. Hundreds of great minds and scientists have been among the faithful. Were they all “silly” in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Linden\_Arden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Linden\_Arden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linden_Arden)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/87 "2017-10-29T00:59:25Z")
If not ignorance, religion is a form of bondage bordering on masochism. ---
**Author:** ![Linden\_Arden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Linden\_Arden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linden_Arden)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/88 "2017-10-29T01:01:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Atheism, the kind that mocks other people faith, is indeed a religion. “Atheism is a religion like starvation is a food group” In quotes because someone else said it first. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/90 "2017-10-29T01:37:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I choose my religion, you have chosen yours. Hardcore Atheism, the kind that mocks other people faith, is indeed a religion. Sorry, you have no ground to tell me what I am. I am just normal. “-ism” requires effort. I do not -ist. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/91 "2017-10-29T01:47:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > . . . Hardcore Atheism, the kind that mocks other people faith, is indeed a religion. . . . What specific supernatural concept do atheists uphold? Souls? Nope. Gods? Nope. Heavens or hells? Nope. Religions hold supernatural beliefs; atheism doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/92 "2017-10-29T02:02:12Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > How do you know? Didn’t Pagans pretty much invent a god for just about everything they didn’t understand? ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/93 "2017-10-29T02:18:05Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > As I understand it, the Catholic perspective on those points (at least for the clerics) is that the early parts of Genesis are allegorical. Adam and Eve are symbolic and original sin represents man’s discovery of morality. Which solves some problems for believers, and causes others if Adam and Eve were only symbolic. Brodie says that a half a century after the publication of _On the Origin of Species,_ Pope Leo XIII and the Pontifical Biblical Commission had a decision to make in June of 1909 and it was determined that the literal meaning of Genesis 1-3 was still accepted, and Adam and Eve were real historical people, not symbolic. In 1948 the Commission met again and reversed their decision saying it was no longer necessary for them to teach it as historical after all. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/94 "2017-10-29T03:22:17Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > As I understand it, the Catholic perspective on those points (at least for the clerics) is that the early parts of Genesis are allegorical. Adam and Eve are symbolic and original sin represents man’s discovery of morality. The object lessons are clear – especially the part where Eve took the first bite (i.e., women will lead you unto evil). The literal interpretation of the torah books is common to only a small set of christian sects. I mean, look how popular pig bacon is everywhere. Kosher laws or the lack thereof is not a test of literalism, since the NT specifically frees Christians from following them. (Bad for sales.) If your argument is what they believe, it makes little sense. The problem was rebellion against God, and the fact that since we are descended from Adam and Eve we pay for their mistake. Did all those appreciating morality sin against God? If a subset, are those not descended from them excused from original sin? BTW, some of the Christian sects with literal interpretations are rather large. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/95 "2017-10-29T03:23:31Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > Which solves some problems for believers, and causes others if Adam and Eve were only symbolic. Brodie says that a half a century after the publication of _On the Origin of Species,_ Pope Leo XIII and the Pontifical Biblical Commission had a decision to make in June of 1909 and it was determined that the literal meaning of Genesis 1-3 was still accepted, and Adam and Eve were real historical people, not symbolic. In 1948 the Commission met again and reversed their decision saying it was no longer necessary for them to teach it as historical after all. And in both cases their decision was divinely inspired! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/96 "2017-10-29T03:27:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I choose my religion, you have chosen yours. Hardcore Atheism, the kind that mocks other people faith, is indeed a religion. > > Hundreds of great minds and scientists have been among the faithful. Were they all “silly” in your opinion? 300 years ago religion seemed like the best explanation for the world. So having faith back then wasn’t silly. Today it isn’t even a good explanation. As an example, Tom Paine said that he wasn’t an atheist, but believed in a deity (just not the Christian one) because he could think of no non-divine explanation for the structure of the solar system. We have one today. He wasn’t silly back then, but do you think he’d still use that explanation today? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/97 "2017-10-29T03:29:19Z")
> [@SAMUELQQ](#): > > Oh look, militant atheists talking about how religious people are all subhuman - how original Care to point out where anyone was called subhuman? Being deluded is all too human. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/98 "2017-10-29T03:36:05Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Sorry, you have no ground to tell me what I am. I am just normal. “-ism” requires effort. I do not -ist. Once you are such a hard core atheist that you mock those with faith, you have a religion, like it or not. why do you feel a need to mock other’s religion? ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/99 "2017-10-29T03:38:54Z")
It’s both a safety net and a sand lot in which to bury one’s head. One of the most gratuitous forms of ignorance. FFS… call a spade a spade. It’s okay to use religion as a tool to get through life, but Jesus tapdancing christ… anyone who actually believes that shit as plausible is the quintessential definition of _ignorant_. That’s not a dig on the religious; there’s a time and a place for most things. But c’mon guys… you DO know it’s not actually real… right? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/100 "2017-10-29T03:42:25Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > 300 years ago religion seemed like the best explanation for the world. So having faith back then wasn’t silly. Today it isn’t even a good explanation. > > As an example, Tom Paine said that he wasn’t an atheist, but believed in a deity (just not the Christian one) because he could think of no non-divine explanation for the structure of the solar system. We have one today. He wasn’t silly back then, but do you think he’d still use that explanation today? > **[List of Christians in science and technology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology#2001.E2.80.93today_.2821st_century.29)** > > This is a list of Christians in science and technology. People in this list should have their Christianity as relevant to their notable activities or public life, and who have publicly identified themselves as Christians or as of a Christian denomination. > According to 100 Years of Nobel Prizes a review of Nobel prizes award between 1901 and 2000 reveals that (65.4%) of Nobel Prizes Laureates, have identified Christianity in its various forms as their religious preference. Overall, 72.5% of all t... Max Planck,Robert Millikan,Werner Heisenberg,Freeman Dyson and so forth. Not 300 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003/101 "2017-10-29T03:43:25Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#): > > It’s both a safety net and a sand lot in which to bury one’s head. One of the most gratuitous forms of ignorance. FFS… call a spade a spade. It’s okay to use religion as a tool to get through life, but Jesus tapdancing christ… anyone who actually believes that shit as plausible is the quintessential definition of _ignorant_. > > That’s not a dig on the religious; there’s a time and a place for most things. But c’mon guys… you DO know it’s not actually real… right? No, I dont. How do _you_ KNOW it’s not real? I have doubts certainly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-form-of-ignorance/800003.md?page=6)