# Is religion a trick played on us by the Devil? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 9, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286 "2003-07-09T18:23:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/21 "2003-07-10T11:19:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\*I meant to add that, seeing as how Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism, the moral code isn’t an original touch either. \*\* I can see how one interpretation might be that Christianity is an “offshoot” of Judaism, since Jesus was a Jew and frequently cited Jewish scripture. However, the moral code of Christianity is rather unique given Christ’s moral imperative: be perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/22 "2003-07-10T16:17:40Z")
> [@](#): > > However, the moral code of Christianity is rather unique given Christ’s moral imperative: be perfect. Then again, the moral imperatives against which perfection is weighed are based primarily - I won’t say entirely just because I’m not sure - on the Ten Commandments. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/23 "2003-07-10T16:39:06Z")
**Marley23** , it seems that you have completely missed the point of my post. My point was not that Christianity invented the concept of hell or the idea of a moral code, simply that (as a person that was raised in a Christian environment) that the concept of hell as Christians see it is the one with which I am most familiar. See the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/24 "2003-07-11T05:29:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > **The moral code is nice at times. On the other hand, I don’t like this thing about making up punishments to scare people into doing what you tell them to. Ends justifying means and whatnot. I think that’s responsible for much of the irrational prudery we’re dealing with these days.** Irrational prudery? Are you talking about a sence of decency? Isn’t that all a matter of opinion? Also, making up punishments to scare people into doing what you tell them is just one way at looking at the concept of hell. How about this one, just like there’s the concept of an eternal reward for living a good life, isn’t it logical to have the opposite for living a bad one? Just something to think about. > [@](#): > > \*\*If I may, I’d suggest that the problem here is belief, not religion. As far as belief goes, Communism (and related things) fulfilled the same function for Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Tito and others that religion does for others. I’d say the same for Nazism, but I consider it a kind of religion. \*\* Yes, but there’s a tendency by some people to focus on the religious atrocities that have happened and come to the conclusion then that religion is inherently evil. That it was religion that caused these people to do evil. I posted the link of the bloodiest murders of the 20th century, which shows that these were done by atheists to disprove that line of thinking. These people were responsible for the murder of millions, and they didn’t do it in the name of any God. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/25 "2003-07-11T13:37:09Z")
The idea of religion is benign, it takes active participation by its’ followers to make anything out of it. Human involvement has taken an otherwise decent idea or thought, and turned it into a way of life, or belief. To change a concept, simple, to change a belief, especially in America, impossible. –The American Morality is a Blind Dog Barking. ---
**Author:** ![GodlessSkeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GodlessSkeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GodlessSkeptic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/26 "2003-07-11T13:56:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joel \* > \*\*Ahh yes, if only religion never existed the world would be a much better place. Well to that, I give this link. > [http://www.freedomsnest.com/rummel\_murderers.html](http://www.freedomsnest.com/rummel_murderers.html) > All of them were atheists. Enough said. \*\* The thing is NONE of those murderers were motivated by atheism to commit their atrocities.No genocidal megalomaniac was ever driven by non-belief in an existential claim to commit such acts. The same cannot be said of religionists. That is why the net contribution of religion is a negative one.There are NO benefitsa that can be had by the religious which cannot also be had by the non-religious and religiopn provides a hell of a lot of drawbacks.Irrational justification of and motivation for human atrocity being a big one. Of course we wopuld still have “reasons” to act inhumanely towards one another even without religion but that is totally besides the point.One less major reason to do wrong would be one step closer to that utopian ideal that Trekkies and loony leftists seem to strive for. ---
**Author:** ![GodlessSkeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GodlessSkeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GodlessSkeptic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/27 "2003-07-11T14:02:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joel \* > \*\*Irrational prudery? Are you talking about a sence of decency? Isn’t that all a matter of opinion? Also, making up punishments to scare people into doing what you tell them is just one way at looking at the concept of hell. How about this one, just like there’s the concept of an eternal reward for living a good life, isn’t it logical to have the opposite for living a bad one? Just something to think about. > > Yes, but there’s a tendency by some people to focus on the religious atrocities that have happened and come to the conclusion then that religion is inherently evil. That it was religion that caused these people to do evil. I posted the link of the bloodiest murders of the 20th century, which shows that these were done by atheists to disprove that line of thinking. These people were responsible for the murder of millions, and they didn’t do it in the name of any God. \*\* And again, your argument is incredibly flawed.It is like someone arguing that people under the influence of cocaine, PCP and meth often act irrational and violent and responding with “That’s not true because I know people who were not on drugs who acted irrationally and violently”.No one is saying that a world without religion would be a world without atrocity…just that a world without religion would lack one HUGE motivation/excuse for such behavior. ---
**Author:** ![GodlessSkeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GodlessSkeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GodlessSkeptic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/28 "2003-07-11T14:15:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grimpixie \* > \*\*For many years (in times gone by) it was religious institutions that were centres for learning around the world. How many hospitals and universities were founded/funded by religious groups? > > This is not meant to downplay the evil done in the name of religion at the same time, and to be sure, some of the “learning” that was promoted was dodgy at best, but I think it would be safe to say that without the commitment to learning of religious institutions, we’d be a great deal worse of than we are, educationally speaking. > > Grim \*\* Those same hospitals adn charities were funded by atheists/agnostics as well.For example, Bill Gates donates 95% of his personal income to world health causes(AIDS in Africa etc.).The thing is that, atheists are still the most openly discriminated against, publicly slandered minority(In America and many other places) out there and to see “The Katherine Hepburn atheist memorial wing” or the “Stephen Jay Gould Children’s hospital” is about as likely as seeing the “Boy George Gay Pride Homeless Shelter”. Religions are good for accepting atheist donations to fund their hospitals and charities and naming those things after religious icons. As for the “centers of learning” point, I submit that anyone who excelled at learning or promoting science or any other valuable education or tool of education, did so in spite of religious affiliations…not because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/29 "2003-07-11T15:36:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by panache45 \* > \*\*If there \*were \*a devil, religion is exactly the type of thing he would invent. Then he’d just sit back in his recliner and chuckle. \*\* Like I said, see also _The Screwtape Letters_ by C. S. Lewis. Not exactly what you posit, but it touches on a very similar theme. ---
**Author:** ![ltburch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@ltburch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltburch)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/30 "2003-07-11T16:55:04Z")
I should preface this by saying I am an agnostic with very strong atheistic tendencies. If there is a god I certainly don’t think it has anything to do with the majority of the worlds religious texts. Religion is not for me. That is not to say it is not a good choice for anyone else. However, to now acknowledge the comfort that religion brings to billions of people worldwide is to not acknowledge its most significant role in society. Certainly it is easy to find the times when religious beliefs have become extreme and unfortunate consequences resulted but by in large there are billions of religious people in the world today doing nothing bad on behalf of their religion at all. Those billions of people see religion as a meaningful positive influence in their life. I think the small good multiplied several billion times of the increased happiness and quality of life experienced by believers on a day to day basis does out weigh the comparatively few instances of really bad things done on behalf of religion. To the original poser of the question, do you not know people who feel that religion increases their quality of life? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/31 "2003-07-11T16:56:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joel \* > \*\*. Well to that, I give this link. > [http://www.freedomsnest.com/rummel\_murderers.html](http://www.freedomsnest.com/rummel_murderers.html) > All of them were atheists. Enough said. \*\* That’s not true. Stalin, Mao, Lenin, Pol Pot and Tito were atheists. Hitler’s religion is being constantly debated, but most of the evidence seems to suggest he was a non creedal theist/deist who was interested in neo-paganism. Tojo was a Buddhist/Shintoist. Chiang Kai-Shek was born a Buddhist then converted to Christianity, and Yahya Khan was a Muslim ---
**Author:** ![GodlessSkeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GodlessSkeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GodlessSkeptic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/32 "2003-07-11T18:19:09Z")
Yeah, I didn’t even bother responding to the inclusion of Hitler on that list this time.It seems christians are not going to let historical facts get in the way of painting Hitler as an atheist.I think the evidence points towards him being a christian(with supplemental neo-paganism thrown in) but Capt. Amazin is correct that it is debatable.What is NOT in dispute is the fact that Hitler DID believe in God and even in christian creationism(and thought the latter should be taught in all public schools which contradicts the notion that he was a devout evolutionist). ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/33 "2003-07-11T18:30:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GodlessSkeptic \* > \*\*What is NOT in dispute is the fact that Hitler DID believe. … in christian creationism(and thought the latter should be taught in all public schools which contradicts the notion that he was a devout evolutionist). \*\* Well, I’ve got to say that I’ve never heard of that. Where did you hear that from? ---
**Author:** ![GodlessSkeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GodlessSkeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GodlessSkeptic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/34 "2003-07-11T19:22:53Z")
These are not the quotes I was looking for in ragrds to his direct support of creationism but nonetheless(taken form the [www.positiveatheism.org/](http://www.positiveatheism.org/) site)… > [@](#): > > Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord’s work. > – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf > > Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith… We need believing people. > – Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of 1933 ---
**Author:** ![Svt4Him](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/35 "2003-07-11T19:54:48Z")
What good has religion done? Have you gone to a school? Visited a hospital? What was the driving force behind that? Have you read your constitution? Looked at your laws? What harm has religion done? The same harm as freedom has done, or love has done. I can go murder my wife to have freedom, but does that then make freedom bad? Jesus was clear that many would kill in God’s name, but it was because they didn’t know God, and it also talks about why wars start. So to say Hitler believed in God, that’s great, so does the devil. To say he did what God wanted him to do just doesn’t fit well with what God has previously said. Someone who says they believe in God and are dedicated to Him, yet don’t do what He says, are deceived. ---
**Author:** ![GodlessSkeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GodlessSkeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GodlessSkeptic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/36 "2003-07-11T20:32:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Svt4Him \* > \*\*What good has religion done? Have you gone to a school? Visited a hospital? What was the driving force behind that? Have you read your constitution? Looked at your laws? \*\* There is not a single mention of ‘God’ anywhere in our constituion.Schools and hospitals do not exist because of religion but rather out of need for such institutions(the “driving force” behind hospitals is injury and illness.The driving force behind schools is need for education). > [@](#): > > \*\*What harm has religion done? The same harm as freedom has done, or love has done. I can go murder my wife to have freedom, but does that then make freedom bad? \*\* Bad analogy.‘Freddom’ is not an comprehensive worldview complete with moral guidlines, commandments, doctrine, threats of condemnation and damnation or promise of reward.Comprehensive worldviews are powerful rationales for justification of egocentric, amoral and inhumane behavior. Freedom is an ideal at best adn the default status of any living thing.It is not natural to be born and raised in captivity and such is an abberation. We are all born atheists as well.We have to be taught/indoctrinated into religion. > [@](#): > > \*\* Jesus was clear that many would kill in God’s name, but it was because they didn’t know God, and it also talks about why wars start. So to say Hitler believed in God, that’s great, so does the devil. To say he did what God wanted him to do just doesn’t fit well with what God has previously said. Someone who says they believe in God and are dedicated to Him, yet don’t do what He says, are deceived. \*\* You missed the point of the Hitler thing.No one was bringing up Hitler to show religion as evil but rather in repsonse to the charge that Hitler was an atheist(as well as the implication that atheism motivated the worst acts of murder and genocide in human history)… ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/37 "2003-07-12T02:44:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GodlessSkeptic \* > \*\*The thing is NONE of those murderers were motivated by atheism to commit their atrocities.No genocidal megalomaniac was ever driven by non-belief in an existential claim to commit such acts. > > The same cannot be said of religionists.\*\* Uhm, most religious persecution comes from athiestic commuminst leaders. The persecution of religion in the old Soviet Union, China persecutting the Buhdists in Tibet. > [@](#): > > **That is why the net contribution of religion is a negative one.There are NO benefitsa that can be had by the religious which cannot also be had by the non-religious and religiopn provides a hell of a lot of drawbacks.Irrational justification of and motivation for human atrocity being a big one.** Most people who commit attrocities do so in the name of GOD (or any other kind of diety) are actually just using religion as an excuse, and are rationalizing their actions. And there have been a lot of people who have been helped by religion that would of otherwise not been. Yes, there can be other reasons to get off of drugs, or not commit suiside, but if religion wasn’t around, then there would be one less reason. And a lot of people who wouldn’t have gotten the help they need. > [@](#): > > \*\*Of course we wopuld still have “reasons” to act inhumanely towards one another even without religion but that is totally besides the point.One less major reason to do wrong would be one step closer to that utopian ideal that Trekkies and loony leftists seem to strive for. \*\* The root of **all** our problems are caused by human nature. Not religion, not government, not…whatever. As long as there are people, there’s going to be war, hate, violence, intolerance, sexism, racism, etc. You can take away religion, you can take away everything else that you see as being a bad influence, but in the end, as long as there are people, there will never be a utopia, because if you remove what you see as something bad in society, something else will rise up to take it’s place. It’s the way that things are, and probably the way they’ll always be. ---
**Author:** ![dal\_timgar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@dal\_timgar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dal_timgar)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/38 "2003-07-12T15:56:59Z")
If THE DEVIL had any brains he would have taken over the Catholic church centuries ago. What do you think the Whore of Babylon is? And the word HELL isn’t in the Bible. The underground fire and brimstone nonsense comes from volcanos in Italy. Roman paganism. When did you last hear of a volcanic eruption in the middle-east where JC hung out? I have seen a couple of sources that say the Vatican has one of the largest astrological libraries in the world. Why would they do that? Dal Timgar ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/39 "2003-07-12T16:05:19Z")
Oh great, another Catholic basher. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![dal\_timgar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@dal\_timgar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dal_timgar)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286/40 "2003-07-12T16:34:25Z")
Check out the prophecy of St. Malachi Now that’s bashing. LOL Dal Timgar [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-religion-a-trick-played-on-us-by-the-devil/187286.md?page=3)